Israel says 79 rockets fired at it from Gaza

Comments (17)
Harry079 wrote:

Send in the tanks.

Oct 24, 2012 10:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mils54 wrote:

IMHO Israel needs bigger more destructive munitions!, The bombs they drop on these launch sites are too small to make a real impact, A Daisy cutter would send a substantially stronger message than sending Tanks and Troops, Every time these missiles are sent over the border, BOOM!!! several blocks are vaporized, I bet the Palistinian people would not allow the Rats to fire missiles much longer from their yards and alley ways!.

Oct 24, 2012 12:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

Everything seems to jeopardize the Israeli idea of the peace process because they invariably want the upper hand. Territorial aggrandizement requires some kinf of perpetual state of war and peace and recognition of a second state will end that.

The only peace terms will be those they want, when they want them, and where they want them. And it can’t cost them much. If the Palestinians are militant and armed it is because the situation makes them the weaker side and that’s the stand of the frustrated. The Palestinians occupy less land now than they did when the partition of Palestine was first planned. And the UN record shows that the first wars over the state of Israel started because Israel changed the borders unilaterally.

The Israeli argument is always that they are the minority in the region and force of arms is justified against a superior foe. The Palestinians were using the same argument against the Israelis. Remember the death toll exacted by the Israeli’s in the Gaza conflict was at a factor of 100 Palestinian deaths to one Israeli and the Israeli government could have easily avoided civilian casualties by advising those people to move away temporarily. Why didn’t they? Did the occupants want to avoid a hotel bill or did the government not want to provide them with temporary accommodation? The Palestinian civilians were trapped within that compound and could not escape. That was one of the more obscene crimes against humanity I’ve heard about from a supposedly civilized and western country. It was worse than Bosnia because the Bosnians could flee.

The Israeli’s are claiming a right to occupy the West Bank as the spoils of war. That is illegal under laws governing the UN that Israel agreed to when it became a member state. The settlements were built on land under their own land use control without any other input from the Palestinians expect the sale of some of the land. It is easy to suggest that some of those sales were coerced by the prevailing conditions of life in the West Bank. The new wall was not built on land sold to them by the owners and any destruction of property the Israelis undertake in Gaza or the West Bank, in the interests of its own security, is also not compensated. The Israeli’s seldom move their people. It’s usually the Palestinians that have been displaced and many have moved from the West bank and Gaza to neighboring countries, and for some it was decades ago. The Israelis are still encouraging their own people to occupy former Palestinian territory to create “facts on the ground”. The Palestinians have repeatedly complained that settlements have not ceased.

Israel created itself through force of arms and is a very militant state with compulsory conscription. The Palestinians can only use volunteers and very under-funded military forces to defend the interest of it’s own people who have very tenuous legal rights under Israeli occupation. The Israeli’s seem to fear a better-managed Palestinian state because they will not be able to carry on with extra territorial expansion in the only area they can expand. Can anyone reasonably suggest any other motive? No other country in Europe and certainly not the US or Canada, is successfully able to defend itself in the name of preserving itself as an ethnic or religious enclave. They can’t do that as members of the UN.

There is no reason at all to accept true faith on the part of Israeli negotiators and the Palestinians know it. The Palestinians are the people most tangibly pressed by the situation and the Israelis have to show willingness to withdraw and to accept the Palestinians existence as a self governing entity or else redefine itself and allow all the inhabitants to become a single state.

The western powers show no true faith either in that they seem to recognize the right to self-defense of their own interests but not those regimes they label their enemies. That’s all I’ve heard for 50 years from the bigger powers. That’s what tended to make them the big powers.

The world does seem to reduce, in essence, to the wolves and the sheep. But one never expects true faith or honesty in negotiations with a wolf. But the wolves do try hard to advertise themselves as sheep.

If anyone thinks that the UN is the problem think what will happen if it ceases to exist? The State of Israel was largely a UN invention.

Oct 24, 2012 2:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
1.commoner wrote:

This is partially attributable to a weak President that is not concerned with the safety of Israel. Sure, he talks a lot… and a lot… and a lot… But it is Ba-racks ACTIONS that are more telling. Something voters need to consider with respect to the last four years of circumventing the law where he can and otherwise ignoring his duty to uphold both laws and agreements with allies. When President Romney takes office, then will Israel have a true and strong ally.

Oct 24, 2012 3:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
joe10082 wrote:

Its all coming down to the fact that Israel will have no choice some time soon but to retake the Gaza strip by force, and remove each and every inhabitant from this area. Nothing will improve the current situation until these people (terrorists) are chased to a much more distant location, and or the case of last resort exterminated.

Oct 24, 2012 4:05pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
krimsonpage wrote:

@joe10082 You must not be a Jew. I don’t know any Jews advocating holocaust on Palestinians. You are just sick little big talking chicken.

Oct 24, 2012 4:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@1.commoner:

I’d like to know how exactly support for Israel is in the interests of Americans?

Israel, and its two-faced supporters over here, for example, Richard Perle and his company of Neocons, had a great deal to do with our stupid war on Iraq, killing up to a million people, and running up our national debt by at least $3T. (Check PNAC, if you have forgotten.)

Israel regularly makes us look like fools before the world, through the obsequiousness of our Congress, Presidents, and would-be-Presidents to whatever the AIPAC-types order.

Israel, and its two-faced supporters over here, risk running quickly gas prices up to $10/gallon and more, in the event of war on Iran.

Israel threatens nuclear conflagration on the ME, and even in the world, just to save their own God-given Zionism.

Our support of Israel makes us inconsistent supporters of democracy: we support Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yeman and the other Arab dictatorships not only for oil, but to keep Israel “safe”. We support jihadi imports to Syria to rough up Assad to the benefit of Israel. Unfortunately the jihadis may destroy Syria and do great harm to Turkey. Look what happened in Afghanistan and Pakistan. (And now Pakistan appears to be the most imminent nuclear threat in the world, along perhaps with Israel.)

A good fraction of the ME hates the US. But, we need access to their oil. Instead, to help out Israel, we are driving Iran, and probably Iraq, into the arms of our Chinese competitors.

Face it: Zionist Israel was a mistake! Israel: born out of the usual weakness, short-sightedness, and duplicity of Western politicians, not to mention the Western perpetrated Holocaust.

Best thing to do: support a one-state solution for Israel, and get rid of the Zionist ideology. Virtually everybody in the world would benefit from this solution, even Jewish people.

Oct 24, 2012 5:05pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
1942.bill wrote:

No doube, any retaliation on the part of the Israelis will be reported around the world as Israeli aggression.

Oct 24, 2012 5:50pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
DeanMJackson wrote:

The article reads, “Israel said it was “astounding” that Qatar, a U.S.-allied Gulf state, would take sides in the Palestinian dispute and endorse Hamas…”

Not at all surprising when you know Arab governments’ “Long-Range Strategy” towards Israel, which was hatched at the Arab League’s first summit meeting in Cairo, Egypt in 1964:

Firstly, the term “Palestinian” was a national designation given to the inhabitants of the Jewish Homeland in 1922. Other than that, it had no ethnic/intrinsic nationalist* value, which is why the territory was re-named Israel on May 14, 1948 when the Jews declared independence.

Secondly, Arab governments resurrected the defunct “Palestinian” name in 1964 (at the first Arab League summit in Cairo, Egypt, where the PLO was officially created and launched) when they were forced to alter their strategy towards Israel, because Israel in 1963 had either tested their first nuclear bomb or actually acquired their first nuclear bomb.**

This brings us to the Six-Day War, which was planned (with the cooperation of the USSR) to be lost by Arab governments, so as to operationalize the Arab governments’ proxy strategy, using the newly-minted “Palestinians”.

Note that Arab governments never did create an “Arab” state for West Bank/Gaza inhabitants between 1948 – 1963, nor a “Palestinian” state (when “Arabs” was changed to “Palestinians”) between 1964 – May 1967.

The next phase of the Arab governments’ Long-Range Strategy will be to have Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza renounce their claim for an independent state and opt to become Israeli citizens instead, which is what they are according to the Palestine Mandate of 1922. When one throws in Arabs living in the refugee camps, the Jewish inhabitants of Israel will be electorally out-voted, leading to the reincorporation of the territory that is now Israel back into the Arab fold.

There is, however, one tactic that Israel will use to thwart the “new” Arab governments’ Long-Range Strategy:

Israel’s counter-strategy to offset the looming Arab electoral majority will be to offer Jews living all over the world automatic Israeli citizenship, thereby conferring the right to vote in Israeli elections, swinging the electoral balance back overwhelmingly to the Jewish side.

Contemporaneous with events described above, watch for the fake “collapse” of the Chinese Communist government, when soon after that “collapse” Mexico will request the “assistance” of Chinese troops in combating the then spreading Mexico City-manufactured “drug wars” there. America, however, will be stymied from preventing the presence of Chinese troops in Mexico due to emergencies that will “suddenly” crop up in the Korean peninsula, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
———————
*”The First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations (in Jerusalem, February 1919), which met for the purpose of selecting a Palestinian Arab representative for the Paris Peace Conference, adopted the following resolution: “We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.”[60]” – Wikipedia, “Palestinian People”.

and

“An all-Palestine Congress was held in Jerusalem between January 27 and February 10, 1919, to formulate a common policy, called “program”, on Palestine to advise Faisal while attending the Paris Peace Conference on behalf of the Arabs. The Jerusalem Congress was presided over by ‘Aref Pasha al-Dajani who was, at the time, the president of the Jerusalem branch of the Muslim-Christian Association mentioned earlier. (Representatives of the Association also attended the General Syrian Congress in Damascus.)(8)

The Jerusalem Congress, resolved to reject political Zionism and to accept British assistance on condition such assistance would not impinge upon Sovereignty in Palestine.(9) Basically, the Congress wanted Palestine to be part of an independent Syrian State to be governed by Faisal of the Hashemite family. It
also preferred U.S. political tutelage, should this be necessary, or British tutelage, as a second choice, but under no circumstances would the Congress accept French political guardianship.” – PALESTINE:
FACTIONALISM IN THE NATIONAL MOVEMENT (1919 – 1939), DR. MANUEL HASSASSIAN.

In these consultations between Arab elites of Palestine circa 1919-1920, there was NO mention of the “distinct ethnic Palestinian people”. They referred to themselves as Syrian, Arab.

** Note: Arab governments held their first Arab League summit the very year after Israel’s reputed first test (or acquisition) of a nuclear bomb. The summit was necessary in order to implement a new Pan Arab government “Long-Range Strategy” towards Israel.

Oct 24, 2012 6:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

@DeanMJackson – The Jews weren’t called Israeli’s and the Palestinian Arabs weren’t called Palestinians yet in the UN record dating to 1948. When I looked at that record about ten years ago, and the maps of the original partition, the first two years, 1948 and 1949, seemed to be missing. The UN was a new organization and may have been moving to the NYC quarters and they may not have kept as good records of their proceedings until they had established themselves in the NYC headquarters.

You’re hidden “elites” and their murky plans would make for a more compelling argument if it wasn’t for the fact that so many of those elites are dead now. You may as well accuse Cornelius Vanderbilt (The Commodore) of founding Amtrak. The living have a way of forgetting or thwarting long range plans. The Arab world has not been able to create particularly long-range plans about much of anything since. They weren’t always particularly agreeable about OPEC policies. Their biggest preoccupation seems to have been getting stinking rich and investing oil wealth. Wealthy people don’t tend to have a lot of patience with the destitute.

What does it matter what either side is called? It is a matter of survivors who now call themselves Palestinians and who lost farms and homes to an incursion of people they didn’t have the power to resist. It cost many of them homes, livelihoods and land and that very exclusive definition of a “Jewish” (and I still puzzle how Israeli’s decide what “Jewish” means) homeland with Hebrew as the official language continues to do that to them. Hebrew was not even a commonly spoken language among the Jews until they made it the official common language of Israel.

It wouldn’t be hard to identify a Palestinian for the purposes of citizenship because it would be a matter and ancestry and birth in that part of the world. One could trace them to deeds and property owned by deceased relatives. But it would only be possible to do that to a small number of present-day “Jewish” Israeli’s.

If one state could be invented for one “people” than why not two to include those ignored or excluded by the first “invention”?

I never get the point of most of your comments but I enjoy reading them. You find dustier information than I do, but I’m not sure anyone alive really cares?

Oct 24, 2012 7:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

@DeanMJackson again: you write – “Israel’s counter-strategy to offset the looming Arab electoral majority will be to offer Jews living all over the world automatic Israeli citizenship, thereby conferring the right to vote in Israeli elections, swinging the electoral balance back overwhelmingly to the Jewish side.”

They may not be such a good idea for the Israeli’s. Not all people who claim they are “Jewish” (again how would they decide that) approve of the way Israel is acting now. It might not work quite as well as the extreme right wing of Israeli society might expect?

BTW – The Iraqi’s recognize a “right of return” for those who fled during Saddam Hussein’s years and the Afghans also seem to offer that. It’s a catchy idea. The quality of life they might return to is another matter.

The Israeli’s seem to have a invented a concept of citizenship rights that few, if any, countries in the world share. For example: if a person born to expatriot grandparents or great grandparents lived in France and was a French citizen, he or she would not have automatic right to reclaim US citizenship. The Israeli’s elevated a theological or religious idea as a valid claim for citizenship in a territory formerly controlled by an Arab speaking majority that could more easily and rationally point to family trees and property documents. The Israeli’s have even made efforts to negate, or make more difficult, the establishment of claims based on those “Palestinian” records.

People can be very hard edged and even nasty when it comes to getting real property out of the hands of those who claim it. With all the people with real estate licenses in the world, you’d think that would be a point far more recognized than it usually is when looking at the Israel/Palestine conflict?

You look for murky hands when the obvious issues are staring you in the face.

At rock bottom – It’s the money, honey!

Oct 24, 2012 8:47pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Yesyes wrote:

@paintcan Don’t bother trying to have a conversation with this guy. He’s just a brainwashed robot who copies and pastes the same two articles over and over again in the comments sections, one of which you have just read and will no doubt see written in countless other places, the other an article claiming the USSR never collapsed and that we’re in grave danger from a worldwide communist conspiracy. He has no thoughts of his own and responding to him is just a waste of your time

Oct 24, 2012 10:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

Thanks for the advise Yesyes. My 88 year old dad thinks the world is full of “robots” too and he may be right. I haven’t looked for his other comments.

The Israeli/Palestine issue is very irksome to me because it seems to be the crown of double talk and dissimulation and has had the worst consequences for the past ten years. And they insist on managing their affairs such that they can do so much more damage and they really aren’t worth it.

It’s a relief in a way that the world will be far more influenced in the future by the Far East and Israeli pretensions may not matter as much as they do to the West. The Far East is not as heavily influenced by the Judea-Christian tradition but is heavily influenced by the Islamic tradition, even in China.

Life isn’t going to be any easier for the Israeli status quo in the future.

Contrary to the adage: Money and BS both talk. “Robots” listen to both and can’t tell them apart.

Oct 24, 2012 12:21am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DeanMJackson wrote:

paintcan says, “The Jews weren’t called Israeli’s and the Palestinian Arabs weren’t called Palestinians yet in the UN record dating to 1948.”

Response: Before May 14, 1948 all inhabitants in Palestine were called Palestinians by the United Nations and its pre-cursor, the League of Nations.

ART. 7. of the Palestine Mandate (1922) reads:

“The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.”

paintcan says, “You’re hidden “elites” and their murky plans would make for a more compelling argument if it wasn’t for the fact that so many of those elites are dead now.”

Response: A “Long-Range Strategy” isn’t based on the lifespans of the signers. It transcends the particular rulers in power at the time of the signing of the strategy.

The proof that the “Long-Range Strategy” is still in operation is the continued use of the fraudulent name “Palestinian” for Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza.

When Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza opt to become Israeli citizens, then you will know the truth.

Oct 25, 2012 2:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

@deanMJackson: you say – “When Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza opt to become Israeli citizens”. You’re also looking too far back while the mandate was British who they didn’t approve of the “State of Israel” and the 1950 white paper predicted what would happen.

Would you please show some record where Arabs could opt for Israeli citizenship en masse or if that was ever a sincere option for them once the State of Israel was founded? What would the state of Israel have done about property claims against the new state? It’s ironic – but the Palestinian Arabs had greater freedoms regarding personal property than the early Israeli migrants. And yet the Palestinians were supported by The USSR and the Israeli’s by the west and the USA. Go figure?

It’s a fine solution you suggest but would they have to learn Hebrew, or would that state have had dual languages and dual cultures? There are orthodox Rabbis in Israel trying the make all Jews observe the Sabbath the hard way. No orthodox Jew is allowed to “lift a finger” for 24 hours. As I understand it, that observance isn’t that popular in Israel where it is possible to be “Jewish” and not be at all religious.

It is one of the reasons I am so confused about the notions of what “Jewish” means. One can be an atheist and still claim one is a “Jew”. That isn’t the case with any other religious tradition on the planet. What’s going on there?

Oct 25, 2012 11:41am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DeanMJackson wrote:

paintcan says, “It is one of the reasons I am so confused about the notions of what “Jewish” means. One can be an atheist and still claim one is a “Jew”. That isn’t the case with any other religious tradition on the planet. What’s going on there?”

Response: I think it’s us gentiles that attaches the religious title to those non-believers. The non-believers would be happy to be just seen as your everyday atheist that happens to be an American, French, Italian, South African or Israeli.

Oct 25, 2012 1:54pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

It doesn’t matter at all what “gentiles” call Israeli “atheists”. It matters most what rights and privileges Israeli atheists possess over Israeli Arabs or Palestinian Arabs, and why.

And you didn’t produce that citation I suggested?

Oct 25, 2012 12:50am EDT  --  Report as abuse
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