In the Badger State, divided over and baffled by Obamacare

Comments (38)
jars13 wrote:

I know with all the lies and flip flops Romney/Ryan are counting on uninformed voters ( never dreamed they would get this much support). For a man that got rich outsourcing our jobs and doesn’t believe the rich need to pay taxes it falls in line with those trying to buy him the election. Romney’s style of business experience is what got us here in the first place. Wake up America, do some research and see who this man really is.

Nov 02, 2012 1:35am EDT  --  Report as abuse
bates148 wrote:

This might have been the worst article I’ve ever read. Just reading the first three paragraphs says it all! Wow, what has journalism come to?

Nov 02, 2012 2:21am EDT  --  Report as abuse
randburg100 wrote:

Perhaps the US government should trim a few hundred billion $ from its military monstrosity – stop invading other nations & interfering in their affairs & look after its own….or is that too easy?????

Those hundreds of billions of $$$ would buy an awful lot of healthcare…despite the twaddle you hear in the press, the NHS we have in the UK is superb…..

Nov 02, 2012 3:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cutegringo wrote:

Only the stupidity of Bush waging 2 wars costing billions. It could solve the nation’s dysfunctional healthcare.
Why is it in Germany and Australia, government and private hospitals work well together. To cap cost, you could limit the doctors’ liability damage.

Nov 02, 2012 4:45am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Rhino1 wrote:

Mr. Romney has written off 47% of the population already. If a “potential” president is writing off 47% of “his” people, who is going to care of them?
I have to agree with what was said above: how can this man get anywhere near 45% of votes? Are there really that many millionaires in this country? Surely it’s no problem paying off its debt then?

By the way, since they have shut down Occupy Wall Street, why don’t the 47% that are not of Mr. Romney’s concern get into their car one day (well, at least the ones who have one)and visit Wall Street. It’s a free country, right? Anyone can drive their car anywhere they like.

Nov 02, 2012 4:46am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cutegringo wrote:

Only the stupidity of Bush waging 2 wars costing billions. It could solve the nation’s dysfunctional healthcare.
Why is it in Germany and Australia, government and private hospitals work well together. To cap cost, you could limit the doctors’ liability damage.

Nov 02, 2012 5:18am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cutegringo wrote:

Only the stupidity of Bush waging 2 wars costing billions. It could solve the nation’s dysfunctional healthcare.
Why is it in Germany and Australia, government and private hospitals work well together. To cap cost, you could limit the doctors’ liability damage.

Nov 02, 2012 5:18am EDT  --  Report as abuse
stambo2001 wrote:

Unlike barry’s ‘kinetic military actions’ in libya, yemen and half a dozen other ‘developing’ countries those ‘Bush Wars’ you lefties like to cry about were brought before congress for vote. BOTH sides of the isle voted for those ‘Bush wars’ you seem to forget. Why, I do believe the sitting democratic Secretary of State herself voted in favor of those bad ‘Bush Wars’. Is this not so? Huh?

So lets get this straight though, are you saying that now today you lefties prefer extra-judicial assassination ( with the killing of innocent civilians as collateral damage) as opposed to a nation legally using their military against an opposing force? So you lefties prefer street justice to all that pesky Rule of Law stuffs?

Yes wars are expensive and people die. The difference is the legal and moral process. The difference is acting like a nation of laws or acting like the mob. The difference is bringing wanted criminals to justice or having them simply murdered by a death squad. How do you build a nation of laws, how do you maintain a nation of laws, on a foundation of lawlessness?

Nov 02, 2012 7:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Sensibility wrote:

The Affordable Care Act is, and always will be, an assault on our civil liberties. It requires people to buy something they may not want or need simply by virtue of being alive. It is bad legislation true, but more than that, it is a law that erodes our freedom. It is wrong. Opponents of this law must be elected to the office of President and Congress so that it can be repealed to the maximum extent possible.

Nov 02, 2012 7:34am EDT  --  Report as abuse
longtail wrote:

Lack of Government run healthcare is crippling the ability of small businesses (actual small businesses) to compete in the world market and, in fact, may be unconstitutional.

Nov 02, 2012 8:25am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Carmi wrote:

bates148 wrote:
This might have been the worst article I’ve ever read. Just reading the first three paragraphs says it all! Wow, what has journalism come to?
_______________________________________________________________________
And why is that? You thought it was poorly written? Or is refuted your “truth?”

Nov 02, 2012 8:26am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Carmi wrote:

bates148 wrote:
This might have been the worst article I’ve ever read. Just reading the first three paragraphs says it all! Wow, what has journalism come to?
_______________________________________________________________________
And why is that? You thought it was poorly written? Or is refuted your “truth?”

Nov 02, 2012 8:26am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Carmi wrote:

stambo2001 wrote: you lefties like to cry about were brought before congress for vote. BOTH sides of the isle voted for those ‘Bush wars’ you seem to forget.
______________________________________________________________________
You have a point, except that the Bush administration pushed all the false information centered around the yellow cake lie to promote war with Iraq. There was no legitimate reason to invade Iraq. Afghanistan? Yeah, probably.

Nov 02, 2012 8:48am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Carmi wrote:

Sensibility wrote:

The Affordable Care Act is, and always will be, an assault on our civil liberties. It requires people to buy something they may not want or need simply by virtue of being alive
_______________________________________________________________________
Who doesn’t need health insurance? Maybe you mean like people who don’t need automobile insurance when they drive a car? Maybe you don’t understand the concept of insurance.

Nov 02, 2012 8:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
MaleMatters wrote:

Good discussion

Re: “To Tim Givhan, Obamacare shouldn’t be an excuse for election-year polemics: “It’s a lifeline.”

It may also be a deathline because of the physician shortage mentioned. See “Obamacare will make a bad situation worse”

Nov 02, 2012 9:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
rayld wrote:

The people who claim that ObamaCare will CAUSE companiesto drop insurance coverage always seem to ignore that due to the increaded cost this was already the trend BEFORE ObamaCare was passed.

Nov 02, 2012 9:14am EDT  --  Report as abuse
PCScipio wrote:

@stambo2001: “…those ‘Bush Wars’ you lefties like to cry about were brought before congress for vote.”; under the false pretenses of an al-Qaeda and WMD canard brought to us by a megalomaniacal bunch of neo-cons who wanted (and still want, with a Romney presidency) to kick off an “American century.” And by the way, there isn’t a real liberal I can think of who doesn’t decry the current implementation of Obama’s drone program. Why do you always confuse liberals with hyper-partisan Democrats?

@Sensibility: “The Affordable Care Act is, and always will be, an assault on our civil liberties. …it is a law that erodes our freedom.” Aren’t you the drama queen this morning. I guess you’re okay with states requiring liability insurance on your car? Anyway, did you miss the SCOTUS decision that the mandate is a tax?

Nov 02, 2012 9:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse
GailC wrote:

When Romney/Ryan are trying to mislead people regarding Obamacare and people actually nod their heads there’s no hope for these people. Working in the medical field and working as an insurance administrator for the company I worked for (retired now)I understand the lies being told. If people are happy with Medicare then Obamacare is the same but for people under 65. It is NOT socialized medicine, you choose your own doctors, you choose your own treatment and $816,000,000 is NOT being taken away from Medicare. $816,000,000 is being SAVED by exposing fraud and payments for unnecessary treatment. Most people have no idea the medical claim fraud and unnecessary tests being done. Finally, I myself would replace my health insurance with Obamacare if it costs me less money. My insurance is very expensive. I’m also tired of paying for the UNINSURED people receiving medical treatment. Romneycare will have you going to the ER. Good luck with that!

Nov 02, 2012 9:37am EDT  --  Report as abuse
scythe wrote:

you mean the Halliburton Mercenary Wars

a gimp like bush couldn’t fight a war, instead he sent american adolescents to die for him

The 25 Most Vicious Iraq War Profiteers
http://www.businesspundit.com/the-25-most-vicious-iraq-war-profiteers/

Nov 02, 2012 10:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse
gangof4 wrote:

Excellent article but why not explore what Americans dislike about a bill they never read, the facts of which talk show hosts probably distort (“death panels,” lack of provider choice, etc.?) The AMA, AHA, pharmeceutical industry, AARP, and many other groups support it. And how many Americans who rage about the individual mandate are not insured themselves? I’m sure they would demand service should something catastrophic happen to them, yet they refuse to support the requirement for a modest investment of their own.

Governor Romney would allow states to run Medicaid on their own with the help of block grants (these are grants with no restrictions on their use.) In my state, these funds would be misappropriated and disappear overnight without federal government oversight. Governor Romney’s notion is either niaive or foolish. But then, he doesn’t worry about the poor, does he?

Nov 02, 2012 10:28am EDT  --  Report as abuse
gangof4 wrote:

Excellent article but why not explore what Americans dislike about a bill they never read, the facts of which talk show hosts probably distort (“death panels,” lack of provider choice, etc.?) The AMA, AHA, pharmeceutical industry, AARP, and many other groups support it. And how many Americans who rage about the individual mandate are not insured themselves? I’m sure they would demand service should something catastrophic happen to them, yet they refuse to support the requirement for a modest investment of their own.

Governor Romney would allow states to run Medicaid on their own with the help of block grants (these are grants with no restrictions on their use.) In my state, these funds would be misappropriated and disappear overnight without federal government oversight. Governor Romney’s notion is either niaive or foolish. But then, he doesn’t worry about the poor, does he?

Nov 02, 2012 10:28am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Stickystones wrote:

Obamacare does not give FREE healthcare to millions of people, they have to buy insurance which is subsidized by the government. Remember they will tax them if they don’t buy the health insurance. The #1 impediment to job creation is health insurance! When Hillary & Bill attempted this in the 90′s they attempted to throw it all on the business, Obamacare puts it back on the government with a sweetner for those who cannot afford private insurance. Neither is the right solution – just follow the money trail. Controlling the costs of Hospitals, Insurance Co.’s, Drug Co.’s and a number of other support services is they only sane thing to do. We as a nation cannot afford to enrich the few to help the many. Mitt Romney was chief executive of the first state to attempt something different, Obama saw no issue with the Federal government doing the same. Romney has consistently stated that he feels a Federal Government mandate is not best way and most of his proposals put the states in the driver seat on this issue. The most effective government is the one closest to your home!

Nov 02, 2012 10:31am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Mott wrote:

This is a bad article.

An IT specialist having no savings, a 49 year old left with 2 year old and his condition, has nothing to do with Obamacare.

Nov 02, 2012 10:56am EDT  --  Report as abuse
soulice wrote:

“According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the law’s $938 billion cost over 10 years would be funded by wringing waste from Medicare and Medicaid, along with new levies, such as a tax on generous “Cadillac” insurance plans. The CBO estimates the law would cut the national deficit by $124 billion over a decade.” First, the CBo is not nonpartisan. Period.
Second, Over 10 years, only 124 billion towards a 16 trillion defecit? Spitting on a fire.

Nov 02, 2012 11:28am EDT  --  Report as abuse
todnwth wrote:

WE need a health care system that will benefit all of our citizens, not just those who work for companies that provide it tax free, but those who have to buy it on the open market and they soak you for as much as possible.
Those who have it given it to them by their employers should have to pay taxes on it and use that to pay for the doctors and hospitals and to help pay for those who want to become doctors and nurses who want to become family physicians instead of so called specialists

Nov 02, 2012 11:46am EDT  --  Report as abuse
todnwth wrote:

WE need a health care system that will benefit all of our citizens, not just those who work for companies that provide it tax free, but those who have to buy it on the open market and they soak you for as much as possible.
Those who have it given it to them by their employers should have to pay taxes on it and use that to pay for the doctors and hospitals and to help pay for those who want to become doctors and nurses who want to become family physicians instead of so called specialists

Nov 02, 2012 11:46am EDT  --  Report as abuse
moonhill wrote:

It isn’t just in Wisconsin. Obamacare divides and confuses everywhere.

Nov 02, 2012 2:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hoxfan wrote:

anybody who thinks obamacare will scare off people who want to become doctors needs their head examined. yeah, medical school is a drag and it is expensive, but few occupations provide the financial stability and prestige of being a medical doctor. it boils down to this: are you willing to take a hit in your paycheck so that your neighbor doesn’t die of some horrible disease? if not, you are a pretty lame excuse for a human being.

Nov 02, 2012 2:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Spruce wrote:

Romney wants the states to develop health care plans. Good luck with that unless you live in Massachusetts. The rest of the country will be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions and be subject to life time caps. That’s not a plan – it’s just plain crazy!

Nov 02, 2012 3:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
brotherkenny4 wrote:

“nanna nanna boo boo”, said the republican intellectual.

Nov 02, 2012 3:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Teabaggers were BORN confused. Obamacare has little to do with that.

Nov 02, 2012 4:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EthicsIntl wrote:

For decades the British, Canadians, Australians & Germans ( & even Taiwanese) have working National Health Systems where everyone is covered, & they all enjoy a longer life expectancy than us.

WHAT’S WRONG WITH US ?

Nov 02, 2012 10:21pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
varun.mitroo wrote:

So how are we going to pay for Obamacare? Borrowing more money from China?

The Obama administration stating that Obamacare will be budget neutral is a lie. The law makes no attempt at actually controlling the true causes of rising healthcare costs. Instead, it uses a flawed payment model (SGR formula, which has been reversed every year since the year it was passed under Clinton). Early next year, Congress will again have to vote to defer the medicare payment cut from SGR, or there will be a 30% cut to providers from Medicare. If Medicare does not pay enough to cover the costs to actually see a patient, physicians en masse will drop Medicare patients.

The actual cost of Obamacare will be enormous, taking this into account. Also, the idea of adding millions of people to “free” insurance, and adding tens of thousands of beaurocrats to oversee it, simply cannot LOWER costs. People, please just step back and look at the whole picture. You simply cannot add all this and then expect to control costs through “fraud and abuse”. Cutting provider costs cannot come close to closing the gap.

The fraud and abuse argument is mostly bul**it. If any physician office does not code a charge correctly that does not match the criteria for the medicare computers, most often through an error of the biller submitting the claim, it is called “fraud”. I’m sorry, but creating ridiculous algorithms for ICD-9 codes and CPT billing codes, and then refusing to pay for work that was honestly done by physicians and then calling it “fraud”, is more than dishonest, it is downright criminal. But this is the way that medicare billing works.

We were heading to a fiscal cliff as a country when Obama took office in 2008 already. The multi-trillion dollar debacle that Obamacare will be is speeding us faster towards that cliff. We as a country need REAL reform.

One place to start would be to look at the 5% of medicare patients that cost 50% of the medicare dollar, and analyze why money is spent in those situations. We also need to look at the money spent in the last 6 months of people’s lives, and decide as a country when there are diminishing returns for very expensive care in terminal patients. Adding personal responsibility of patients to the equation would also help. Now these would be steps towards real reform.

Nov 03, 2012 4:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
varun.mitroo wrote:

hoxfan writes:
“are you willing to take a hit in your paycheck so that your neighbor doesn’t die of some horrible disease? if not, you are a pretty lame excuse for a human being.”

What about if your neighbor was an IV drug abuser and contracted hepatitis or HIV. Should you be paying for his treatment? If your neighbor develops emphysema and lung cancer because she smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a year his whole life, should we all as a society be obligated to pay for her healthcare?

How about the alcoholic with end stage liver disease and GI bleeding hospitalized in the ICU repeatedly for hundreds of thousands of dollars? How much care should be spent on these patients, and how much is the moral obligation of society?

Questions we will have to answer as a country as we face the reality that we do not have infinite resources to spend on healthcare. Here is something to consider. Organ transplants have a long waiting list. Anyone who has liver failure for alcoholism currently drinking will NOT be put on the list for organ transplant.

As an comparison, consider this… Should everyone pay the same auto insurance so the people who have had multiple DUIs, multiple accidents, and tickets for reckless driving? Should these people pay the same as everyone else, or should they pay more?

Where does personal responsibility come into the picture?

If you think that your health is something that is just chance or fate, I would disagree. How many people have high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, fatty liver, or so many preventable or treatable diseases? How many billions of dollars are spent taking care of people who had a heart attack, who smoke, are obese, have sky high cholesterol? How many of them actually took their medications and controlled their diet? How many of our car accidents happen with a driver under the influence of alcohol, that he/she chose to consume before driving? I would argue that for every one person that gets a sporadic disease such as multiple sclerosis or cancer, there are _100_ people that have treatable conditions, or conditions that they caused to themselves at some point.

Why is it a RIGHT to get free healthcare, when people are spending $200 a month on cable TV, $100 on a cell phone, $250 hair coloring, and go to the NFL football game for $100 per ticket?

Nov 03, 2012 5:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Samrch wrote:

Other than accidents and infections, sickness tends to be long term (like heart trouble, high blood pressure, diabetes, asthma etc.). Privet insurance will try to get out of that by barring preexisting conditions and telling employs not hire and get rid of those that have long term problems to reduce premiums. Also the very do not work much.

Government action is needed to cover the sick. Government action is needed to create enough doctors to cover all the sick (low cost medical schools) and hospitals etc.

Nov 03, 2012 10:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
wyldbill wrote:

Like so many other things in America, this all boils down to two things, money and race. If you are white and well off, you don’t want to spend any of YOUR money on health care for your fellow citizens and if you are black and poor you are expected to just live with infirmity.

Unless and until America evolves from the dark ages the citizens will continue to suffer.

Nov 04, 2012 7:29am EST  --  Report as abuse
BuffaloGirl wrote:

Motor cycle helmet laws are mandatory in many states. The prevention of head injuries that require extensive medical treatment, and injuries that could limit one’s ability to work in the future was seen as very necessary. Having come upon 2 serious motor cycle crashes where the injuries were horrendous, I had to agree, that while one likes to feel the freedom of the wind in one’s hair, the consequences of feeling the pavement instead outweighed the personal choice. Obamacare is similar in it’s approach, in that it hopes to achieve more on the preventative side to lower costs on the emergency side. It seems odd that those who support Romney are against Obamacare when it is quite similar. So you can move out of Massachusetts if you don’t like it- they explain. That is the lamest attempt to avoid the real issue, and reveals the lack of sincerity in Romney’s campaign. The criticism that it is too difficult to understand is another lame attempt by Republicans to deflect from the good that this legislation achieves. If people want to understand, there are so many ways to learn what it is about, and the can actually look up the bill online if the have the means. But many people feel they would not know where to begin, are overworked and have no time, or just don’t care enou to do their homework. It is our responsibility, as voters, to do our homework. The information is not that complicated. It is disturbing that those who would vote for less government intervention are among some of the first to bitch and moan about how the government is not doing enough when catastrophe strikes. It’s ridiculous that those tea partier Christian voters don’t believe in helping everyone having the care they need since this is a Christian value. They call it socialism, but have no Idea that there is a difference between Democratic socialism (eg. providing health care such as in Britain, Canada, New Zealand and other common wealth countries ) and Communist socialism. Too many people are ill-informed in this respect. Those countries with socialised medicine allow people to spread the cost of healthcare so it is achievable for all, and so they can use their income on other necessities. One way or another, we are going to pick up the tab for healthcare when people are in an emergency and are unable to pay. It is simply bad planning to leave it to fate, when you can do what Obama has done to reduce costs from the provider administrative side, while increasing benefits at the same time. Stop listening to the Republican scaremongering and find out for yourselves!

Nov 04, 2012 11:18pm EST  --  Report as abuse
BuffaloGirl wrote:

@ Varun Mitroo

The scenarios you discuss are what has happened in the past because people could not get early prevention detection and care. With Obamacare people will not have to put off doing something about their diseases, because of exclusions, healthcare caps, etc.. It’s interesting to hear so many people say they don’t want to impinge on anyone’s personal freedoms, and debunk Obamacare, but yet don’t want to support what comes after having those freedoms (drug and alcohol abuse, drunk driving are freedoms, too) not all these behaviors are illegal and are your choice. Based on your argument, you should be paying for all your child’s educational needs, rather an spreading the cost. This means paying the teacher, rental for the school, all their books, buses, etc..directly. If you don’t have kids, then you’re out of that expense. But this means there will be fewer people who can afford to go to school, which means there will be a greater social impact through unemployment, crime, and less achievement. For the greater good, we share in the cost of things. You seem to think that if you can separate yourself from the drug users, smokers, and diabetics on a personal or financial level, that it will not impact on you, but you are mistaken. You are a part of a community whether you like it or not (even if you are a doomsday prepper). The man in this article who suffered a fall, had a head injury, lost his job and his wife left him wants to make his life more productive, but is not in the position to achieve this on his own. No one sets out to have these diseases. Most people tend to think it will never happen to them, and addictions are not easy to come to terms with. I’M guessing by and large life has been good to you and therefore assume that everyone should be able to do well based on your experience. I work with people who are struggling to make their lives work, and I know how extremely difficult it is to live on the upright path you believe everyone can achieve. When you have had every last thing taken from you, have experienced trauma, and have had someone offer you the wrong kind of relief, when you can’t see how you have a hope in hell of ever getting out if a mess, then you are not starting out from the same, level playing field. This is reality, and we have to stem the tide. Many drug users started out as kids, when they did not have the perspective one has as a responsible adult. Drugs such as “P” have such an addictive quality, that after little use, one’s judgement is severely compromised. It is shocking as to what lengths one will go to to stop the terrible feelings on the downside of that drug. Until you have been in these people’s shoes! Or have had someone you know go through this or work with people trying to overcome a disease or an addiction, I doubt you will have the compassion for, or understand the need for this health care.

Nov 05, 2012 12:04am EST  --  Report as abuse
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