Obama says tax hike will have to come first in "fiscal cliff" deal

Comments (65)
J77ypd wrote:

There is no “tax increase” it is merely the expiration of a “temporary tax holiday” instituted by Bush for his wealthy friends. Let it go, once it has occurred the Republicans will catch hell from their own constituents and everyone else for not being reasonable and coming up with a compromise(if it is played right and the press releases are many and consistent). They will then have to agree to a true “tax break” entered into law after January 1, 2013 for the 98%. And they will, they’ll huff and puff and blow and blow and wail and threaten but it won’t change what they will do in the end. Everyone knows it. There is no way after January 1, 2013 that they will not reinstitute the tax breaks for 98% of the people by demanding that the 2% get more.
I imagine the defense cuts will be taken out of these boondoggle special interest wastes put forth by Republicans (and some Democrats) what do you think will happen when they start getting axed after January 1, 2013? These “conservative” hypocrits will all be screaming “No mas, no mas”.
As far as medicare is concerned it is not broke and the Affordable Care Act has alleviated much of any long range problems (I still think we need a single payer plan like Canada). Leave it alone, Social Security is fine too, they are not cash cows for the Wall Street bunch in the Republican Party. You all just got elected or re-elected – Don’t betray us.

Nov 13, 2012 10:21pm EST  --  Report as abuse
J77ypd wrote:

One other thing I was thinking of is that this Republican group of Congressmen (and women) had two years to do something, but they have done absolutely nothing. I think the President should point this out a few times, they je3rk from crisis to crisis usually of their own making, because they don’t concentrate on their job for the American people, putting the American people first, instead of their political party’s ideaology.

Nov 13, 2012 10:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
dontdenytruth wrote:

The fiscal free fall we are now enjoying will not be solved by any wisdom or tactics this admin could ever come up with. The favors owed, the special interest groups that have bought the vote, The dem agenda, and the nefarious greed, the insidious, mind numbing, blatantly corrupt, persons now in charge cannot see they are wrong. They have no clue what right and wrong are. Their world doesn’t even circumnavigate this solar system. They have become living devils, succubus, demons, their only thought is about destruction of themselves and “this grand experiment” we call The United States the republic for which we stand. They sold their souls and our country out a long time ago. With companies like Monsanto and the like, the Drug companies, the Gay lobby buying the vote from our “statesmen” it’s disgusting. The only thing that will get them to change their ways is the apocalypse. Then it will be too late for them. My friends get ready for the real O, Nancy, H.c. reid, Soreus and the likes agenda and the dems in tow thinking they will do america and the world a favor. “Forward” off the cliffs of insanity all in the name of I think I know better than the brilliant and wise fore fathers of this country.

Nov 13, 2012 11:23pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Wassup wrote:

We already have enough idiots supposedly leading the nation without more standing their ground without resolving the fiscal cliff and other matters of immediate need of the nation.

Then again, we have a President travelling to Myanmar, Cambodia/Thailand in the middle of this mess. The 50% who voted for him should strip him of one star for wasting the nations money and time by acting as a tourist. Will his daughters be paid staffers on this junket to Asia?

Nov 14, 2012 12:04am EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

Wassup: “Then again, we have a President travelling to Myanmar, Cambodia/Thailand in the middle of this mess. The 50% who voted for him should strip him of one star for wasting the nations money and time by acting as a tourist. Will his daughters be paid staffers on this junket to Asia?”

You demonstrate perfectly why the Republicans lost the election and why they shouldn’t be allowed to govern our great nation. Obama is going to the region to attend the annual summit of the 10-country Association of Southeast Asian Nations. The heads of government of China, Japan, Russia and other countries are expected to be there. The meetings are to take place in Cambodia.

It’s also important for us to maintain our influence in the region to help counter China’s influence. Furthermore, it again shows a lack of intelligence when people like you support spending a trillion dollars and sacrificing the lives of 4,500 US soldiers “spreadin’ democracy” in Iraq, yet you criticize Obama for simply making a one day visit to Myanmar to help shore up their shaky fledgling democracy. What do you have up there in you head, chicken crap?

But getting back on topic, the time to have addressed the deficit and the debt was during the Bush Presidency when the economy was still going strong. Bush did the opposite. Clinton had us on the right path. Our nation would be soooo much better off had Gore hadn’t had his Presidency stolen from him. We would have had trillions less in debt. Bush and the Republicans screwed up bigger than we have yet to recognize. It’s simply amazing that the GOP has any support at all after what they’ve done to our economy. And now they want to dictate the terms of the budget deal? Simply amazing. We need to quit tolerating their destructive stupidity. Anyone that Wassup supports should be voted out of office.

Nov 14, 2012 12:44am EST  --  Report as abuse
Quietman wrote:

I’m with you Flashrooster. Get over it. The GOP lost. Mitt Happened.
Now let’s get to the table and come up with a compromise solution.

Nov 14, 2012 3:01am EST  --  Report as abuse
kevin2ia wrote:

Typical crap from the NEA, even hated by their own members. US businesses are investing, heavily, just not in the US and not with US manufactured equipment – look around outside of US and EU and see for yourself.

Translation: Corporate chiefs – BO supporters and sycophants. Opposition voices not wanted, invited, tolerated or listened to.

Nov 14, 2012 3:03am EST  --  Report as abuse
hotmess wrote:

Let me see if I understand this correctly. First group he meets with after election is labor unions, and second group will be corporate chiefs that supported him. Did I miss something about members of the opposite parry somewhere? Any you’re telling me there’s a failure to compromise by the Republicans?

As for the fiscal cliff, let’s dive off head first. It appears that’s the only way we’ll ever deal with getting government spending under control. Democrats and the news media have spun this whole debate to be about Republicans being opposed to paying taxes, but the truth is, it’s not about taxes, it’s about spending. I don’t think you’ll talk to any Republican that would ever oppose a tax increase if it were designated for debt reduction. What Republicans are opposed to is higher taxes and more spending. CBO says we’ll have a short term recession, but by 2020 economy will be stronger and we’ll have a balanced budget. Is it asking too much for us to sacrifice 8 years for our children’s sake?

Nov 14, 2012 5:37am EST  --  Report as abuse
Stickystones wrote:

As ‘hotmess’ above pointed out the issue isn’t really raising taxes or even the rates for high income earners. Two years ago the Speaker was about to agree to a deal to do that – but the President tried to shake him down for another $400B+ and that ended the deal. It is about the overall defict and the President’s refusal to stop spending willy nilly. Here’s the deal folks, Obama doesn’t want to go off the cliff because it will curtail his spending and tie his hands, the Republicans don’t want to go off the cliff because it will raise tax rates for many. If this is the only way we can govern, so be it. Let’s jump with eyes wide open! Of course we’ll probably drag the rest of the world into a recession again, but hey we’ve got our own problems.

Nov 14, 2012 8:42am EST  --  Report as abuse
MJGSimple wrote:

Hotmess and Stickystones – If I remember correctly, it was proposed that there would be $10 of cut spending for $1 of tax increases and the Republicans would not agree to it. Many have signed Grover Norquist’s “No Tax Increases” Pledge. Let’s not rewrite history, it is about taxes for those people.

Also, the President is meeting with CEOs today. Nowhere in the article did it state that it would only be supporters of Obama. The article said that the Chamber was not invited. One organization, who from my experience, has done little to actually help small businesses.

Lastly, I am not against having taxes raised. I would much rather see the tax breaks end and all the spending cuts happen than the opposite. If the Republicans don’t want to compromise, let everything expire and the spending cuts happen. We need tax increases and we need spending cuts. Someone act like an adult.

Nov 14, 2012 10:28am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@J77ypd

Congress controls all government spending. They hold all the cards on this one, not the Senate, not the President. If they want to, they can shut the government down. It wouldn’t fair well for their re-election bids, but they don’t have to do anything they don’t want to do.

Nov 14, 2012 1:41pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@j77ypd

“One other thing I was thinking of is that this Republican group of Congressmen (and women) had two years to do something, but they have done absolutely nothing. I think the President should point this out a few times, they je3rk from crisis to crisis usually of their own making, because they don’t concentrate on their job for the American people, putting the American people first, instead of their political party’s ideaology.”

That isn’t true. They rarely get anything they pass, past the Senate. The Democrats and Republicans refuse to work with each other, and hence they get nothing accomplished. Only a Democrat would blame the Republicans, when it is glaring that in 2008-2010, the Democrats did not tackle the debt, or the deficit while holding all 3 chambers.

Nov 14, 2012 1:48pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Mott wrote:

“Fix the Debt”?

Weren’t these the same folks that lobbied for the so called “free-trade/enterprise” that resulted in loss of manufacturing, jobs and related tax revenue at home?

Given that these people keep taking local revenues for decades and not invest locally but create jobs outside, how are these people qualified to tell us to “fix the debt”?

It’s about time to impose VAT on all imports as this is the only effective way to encourage local competitiveness and growth to replace this offshore-model that depleted both our revenues and competitiveness. Numerous incentive methods to encourage local investments in the past simply resulted in just taking in the revenue and keep the offshore model alive, proving all these methods to be ineffective.

The trick is to make the medium, small and low-end-large businesses competitive to replace the large ones by way of import-duties and similar.

Nov 14, 2012 1:51pm EST  --  Report as abuse
SkepticReader wrote:

The Republican party, savagely exposed as politically & morally bankrupt in the last election, continues to fulfill its primary function as an indispensable tool of the ultra-wealthy, holding a loaded revolver to the skull of the American economy for the sake of their investment income. Threatening catastrophic injury unless the United States government submits to the continued “legitimate rape” of its finances in the form of a tax holiday for the extremely rich, the Republicans repeatedly insult the electorate they rejected for being blacks, Hispanics, women, college students, RINOS, moderates, Ron Paul extremists, etc., by proposing thst the poor and the middle class have their taxes hiked dramatically to protect the fortunes of the same people evicting them from their homes and refusing to hire them. This, of course, only quickens their political decline, but they are hoping against hope that these existential threats will miraculously transform women & Latinos into angry middle-aged white males by 2014. Barring that, in service to their ultimate masters, they intend, much more realistically, to wreak as much damage to the institutions of economic governance as possible before the electoral stake is finally driven through their heart, loyal hounds to the bitter end.

Nov 14, 2012 2:41pm EST  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

tax increase on the wealthiest should be steep in dollars and short in time (i.e. expiration date). otherwise, it’ll eventually end up on the middle class’ shoulders, like the AMT. why? because middle class folks don’t have tax layers and lobbyists in DC that will start “working on it” as soon as the tax increase on the wealthiest is in place.

Nov 14, 2012 4:38pm EST  --  Report as abuse

That’s right BO, keep taxing the small business owners up the wazoo so there are absolutely NO JOBS LEFT. We are ALL screwed as Americans.

Nov 14, 2012 5:02pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ConstFundie wrote:

I find it incredulous that whenever is suggested that we can balance the debt by, for example ending Congressional earmarks or increasing taxes on the rich, or cutting tax breaks to clergy, cutting Congressional salaries and benefits, that the response is always ‘Well, gee that is such as small amount, it wouldn’t make a difference in such as huge debt.’

Have they forgotten the principle of addition?

Nov 14, 2012 5:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
brotherkenny4 wrote:

The liberals are a funny bunch. Immediately after the election, they began telling the right what they had done wrong. The advise was heartfelt and in most cases appeared to be a legitimate analysis of the GOPs problem with most voters. One would think they would rather the GOP blunder ahead as they are likely to do with no understanding of what they failed to do or not to do. I’ll list some too. Rush Limbaugh, FOX in general, Grover Nordquist (by the way who is Grover Nordquist and why does anyone care what this little boy thinks?), calling college girls whores, pretending like you like freedom (okay, yes, you want to be free to shove your religious views down everyo0nes throats), pretending like you care about poor people, pretending like you care about fiscal responsibility, and pretending like small government is important to you. You see, fix those, and you might have a chance in the future. But I know, that you won’t change and I appreciate that because you’ll never win again. I suppose you might have your industrial masters fire us all. That would teach us, wouldn’t it.

Nov 14, 2012 5:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
gat007 wrote:

because tax hikes in the midst of a recession is sound economic policy right?

Nov 14, 2012 5:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LuciusDark wrote:

There are lots of things that can be cut and scaled back – such as the tax benefits that churches and religious organizations get – particularly now that most have become political. That’s 70 billion right there. We can also cut the deduction for estates and have everyone pay full estate tax on money and property that was not earned and not worked for by the heirs. By doing nothing the sequestration will kill defense contracts in primarily RED STATES and put a lot of people that vote Republican out of work. Eight compromise now or it will be really bad for the GOP in 2014.

Nov 14, 2012 5:08pm EST  --  Report as abuse
HeatherGirl wrote:

Your got to admit Liberals are an amusing group. It’s always interesting to watch them say that we need to pass what they want today, and then they will vote for what Republicans want “later”…….

Once they have what they want, what motivation will they have to vote “later” for anything someone else wants?

Silly liberals!

Nov 14, 2012 5:11pm EST  --  Report as abuse
GA_Chris wrote:

Fact: raising taxes on the top 2% will no impact growth
Fact: raising taxes on the top 2% will not solve the debt problem.

Nov 14, 2012 5:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Obama is right on this. It’s time to let the tax breaks for the wealthy expire. They’ve been in effect for over 10 years now and they clearly have not helped the economy. What ever magic they were supposed to work, didn’t happen. Time to move on.

Nov 14, 2012 5:20pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TomMariner wrote:

Our President is not serious about this. He wants an issue in the midterms and it will be the recession HE is about to plunge the country into. Not serious — five minutes after he makes his imperious demands of an elected legislature, he will hop on Air Force One for a victory tour of Asia.

And knows that the media will take his side, even after he arrogantly demands that Congress bow to his royal will!

Nov 14, 2012 5:20pm EST  --  Report as abuse

it’s a small price to pay for freedom.

Nov 14, 2012 5:21pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TedDubin wrote:

To the poster that says Republicans did nothing – please check your facts.

There were many bills passed in the House that were blocked from being considered in the Senate. They are exactly what the Democrats called for as “Jobs Bills”. There was ever a press conference where these bills were laid out for review.

The Democrat-controlled Senate has blocked legislation, not the Republicans.

The government is borrowing billions of $$ a day and the (Democrat-controlled) Senate has not passed a budget in over 3 years.

Now they have to start again in a new Congress. How about this time we let the House bills, Republican or Democrat,come up for a Senate vote and pass or fail on the merits of the bill?

Nov 14, 2012 5:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PG-Cleveland wrote:

Oblama continues to campaign with a backdrop of hand picked actors to play a role in his play for the TV. This notion that all problems will be solved by taxing over $250k earners is a joke. Where is the talk on pension reform for gov’t workers? Retire as early as 50 or 55 with diamond plated pensions and great health care and the tax payer gets handed the bill. Be careful what you wish for….you voted for change and that is all you will have in your pocket!

Nov 14, 2012 5:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
shimloom wrote:

Taxing the top 1% or whoever will never make a dent in the debt. This is class warfare by Obama has the dems. Redistribution of wealth. Socialism plain and simple.

Nov 14, 2012 5:27pm EST  --  Report as abuse
roncee wrote:

J77ypd wrote:
“One other thing I was thinking of is that this Republican group of Congressmen (and women) had two years to do something…”

Think about this: Obama and company had the first two years of his presidency to do something about the inequities he and the Dems have been whining about since the 2010 elections. They sat on their collective a**es and did nothing. They had a comfortable majority to do anything they liked with taxes and chose to do nothing. Very disingenuous to be so concerned now. Had they the courage of their convictions, they would have acted then.

Nov 14, 2012 5:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
SeaWa wrote:

If we must go into recession, it would be advantages to go in while drastically cutting defense spending amongst other waste. The last recession we entered was partially due to over-spending on defense. So, either way, whether the corporate and wealthy puppet representatives (republicans) work with us or not, it doesn’t matter much to me. They will reap what they sow.

Nov 14, 2012 5:29pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TedDubin wrote:

To the poster that proposes taxing churches – first it’s unconstitutional, second there is no such thing as “tax benefits” – NOT taxing someone is not a “benefit”.

Nov 14, 2012 5:30pm EST  --  Report as abuse
redeemed626 wrote:

This headline is extremely misleading. If nothing is done, the tax hikes occur at the beginning of next month for everyone. Absent action, that outcome is assured by the bipartisan agreement that addressed defcits caused by the Bush tax cuts that we could never afford in the first place.

President Obama is insisting that the tax cuts be extended right away for 98% of all Americans. This appears to be a problem for Republicans, who seem obsessed with representing ever decreasing numbers of people.

Accurate headline: “President Demands Tax Cut for Most Americans.”

Nov 14, 2012 5:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
tones2400 wrote:

It’s hilarious to read the “doom and gloom” forecasts of the extreme right. We’ve heard it all before – they were wrong then and they’re wrong now. The vitriol, the name-calling, the wailing and whining…all hallmarks of the wackos on the right. It’s interesting to note that most of these comments are full of misspellings, grammatical ignorance and a willful disregard for reality. That’s the GOP base now, and it’s why they lost BIG. Will they ever learn? Probably not – which sets the stage for Democratic rule for some time to come. Pity the fools.

Nov 14, 2012 5:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
SeaWa wrote:

During the two years that Democrats had the opportunity to push a partisan agenda, they reached out to the republicans for compromise. It makes no sense that republicans should now criticize the democratic administration for not doing more, when it was the republican’s arrogant lack of cooperation that brought things to a standstill. Needless to say, that shall not happen again. Democrats mean business this time around. No pussy footing around with conciliation to the rabid.

Nov 14, 2012 5:34pm EST  --  Report as abuse
willf123 wrote:

Ok, I think I’m following this now. The GOP won’t raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans to pre Bush levels but they want to redue the deficit (which their Presient created through tax cuts and wars of discretion that wer unfunded by taxes).
What part of the GOP fantasy world story makes sense?
Should we cut the budget and deficit? You bet.
Lets start with a 30% defense cut. Combined with the revenues from bringing taxes for the wealthy back to pre 2001 levels , when the economy was doing very well using that tax strategy, the budget will balance again. Its basic arithmetic. What part of reality is the GOP struggling with besides the reality that their wealthy backers don’t want to pay their share and would rather cut education and medical and social plans so they can be a litlle more wealthy. Its totally unpatriotic and its toally disconnected from the math.

Nov 14, 2012 5:37pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@Mott

“It’s about time to impose VAT on all imports as this is the only effective way to encourage local competitiveness and growth to replace this offshore-model that depleted both our revenues and competitiveness. Numerous incentive methods to encourage local investments in the past simply resulted in just taking in the revenue and keep the offshore model alive, proving all these methods to be ineffective.

The trick is to make the medium, small and low-end-large businesses competitive to replace the large ones by way of import-duties and similar.”

What you are describing is called tariffs. The problem with tariffs is that everything that gets imported becomes more expensive. The people who are addicted to the cheap imported goods are not the rich, it is the poor and middle class. The $1 store will become the $10 store, and the cost of most consumer goods will sky rocket.

Once we realize this, it becomes apparent that the poor and middle class is responsible for shipping our jobs overseas. The US consumer demands the cheapest deal possible. The cheapest deal possible requires manufacturing outside of the US via cheap labor. For US companies to compete locally and abroad, they must ship jobs overseas in order to lower the cost of their goods which must be done to compete with the foreign businesses.

I think that tariffs are going to be necessary. We can survive on our own economy (Mercantilism), if need be. We are the largest exporter of food in the world. Food can not be easily replaced in many countries. In time the US could rebuild their manufacturing and textiles businesses to meet domestic demand. The hardest thing for us to replace will be electronics. However if we allow companies to come to the US and build the products here tariff free, like we did with the auto industry, we can reach a win/win. But just be aware, the poor and the middle class are going to be kicking and screaming after they see the results of the tariffs.

Nov 14, 2012 5:39pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@brotherkenny4

You won a few elections too early. When the fiscal cliff happens, the Democrats are going to be holding the gun, and that will be the end of your party. I look forward to the demise of both parties.

Nov 14, 2012 5:40pm EST  --  Report as abuse
thesafesrufer wrote:

Obama’s inexperience as a legislator continues to rise to the forefront. Congress will completely ignore him and work out their own deal just like they did last time.

Barack is a great speaker and he means well, but when it comes to legislation he is a total bozo.

Nov 14, 2012 5:42pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TedDubin wrote:

To the poster that says the Democrats reached out for compromise you should check your facts. At one point, Republicans were literally locked out of hearings (search “Democrats lock Republicans out … yourself).

Nov 14, 2012 5:48pm EST  --  Report as abuse
willf123 wrote:

Don’t deny the truth , Thats the pot calling the kettle black.

The solution is and has been simple. The Bush tax cuts for the wealthy will expire and the GOP cannot stop that much to their obvious chagrin. This restoration of taxes on the wealthy that they have been dodging for 12 years now through GOP Congressional obstructionism will
stimulate the economy according to keynesian economic theory(as opposed to the GOPs me first voodoo approach that has done so much damage). That alone will stimulate the economy by introducing the savings the 1% has had, back into the economy. It will vastly begin to correct the deficit imbalance created by the Bush tax cuts in 2001, when the deficit stopped shrinking and started growing(and the economy instantly started slowing).
Second we have an 800 Bn defense budget. Thats insane and greater than the next 20 nation’s budgets combined. It needs to be cut by 30% or more now.
Third, the GOPs plans to cut food stamps(2% of the budget), education(2% of the budget and tax the poor is an example of why they’re losing control of Congress. There will be more losses in 2014 for the GOP if they do not start reflecting reality soon. Their core states, the “stupid” south and the Bible belt will be their only holdouts.
SO lets double down now GOP. Romeny wasn’t conservative enough , thats why he lost. As soon as we get more of the GOP representatives out of Congress and their senators out of the senate, the sooner we can turn these GOP induced problems around. Or, we can be deniers. Like you.
Learn to add and turn off the rush Limbaugh hate radio..

Nov 14, 2012 5:50pm EST  --  Report as abuse
willf123 wrote:

I love the way these guys say anyone who isn’t an extremist crazy Tea bagger is a liberal, Hilarious and in line with the reasoning skills, which are,,,,,,,non existent.

Nov 14, 2012 5:52pm EST  --  Report as abuse
moonhill wrote:

I think the Republicans should give Obama and the Democrats everything they ask for the next four years. The Democrats can take the credit if it works and still blame Bush if they fail.

Nov 14, 2012 5:53pm EST  --  Report as abuse
DocJohn wrote:

I take exception to the “Republicans will catch hell from their own constituents” (from J77ypd). Not true!! I am strongly Republican. Our district is strongly Republican and it has not failed to be so for 100 years. I suggest to my Republican Congressman that we go ahead an go over the cliff and force these entitlement cuts and military cuts even if we have the Bush tax cut expiration. Balancing the budget is what is important, regardless of what might happen to the economy. An economic downturn is inevitable anyway with continued $1T deficits. So I say balance the budget. The forthcoming war will see no choice for survival, but to restore military spending, so at least this action might help stop these deficits. I also tell my Republican Congressman to NEVER, NEVER again raise the debt ceiling. Maybe the President can find the cuts, if he has no choice and there is no military spending left to cut.

Nov 14, 2012 5:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
SmallBiz wrote:

Dear Alkaline State. Contrary to what some who have posted here, and the general theme of the democrats leading up to and following the election, the fiscal cliff is much more than the scheduled automatic end to the Bush tax cuts “on the wealthy.”
In fact, the whole “on the wealthy” thing gets overplayed. It sounds good, but the fact is the Bush tax cuts aren’t just for the wealthy. Although the Bush tax cuts lowered the highest tax rate from almost 40% to 35% on the top income earners, when these cuts are suspended, their repeal will affect a whole lot more of us than just the wealthy. When the Bush tax cuts end, every tax payer will pay more tax, because the Bush tax cuts lowered tax rates for everyone. The marriage penalty will go up, because the Bush tax cuts lowered the marriage penalty. The child allowance will go down, because the child allowance went up with the Bush tax cuts. So as nice as it sounds, the end to the Bush tax cuts means everyone will make less money, not just those in the highest tax bracket.
And there is more…
The fiscal cliff also means the begin of the taxes that pay for the Affordable Care Act, although it won’t be fully implemented until 2014.
And as well, the payroll tax cut, implemented by Obama, will end this year as well. That affects everyone who collects a pay check too.

As good as it sounded, singling out those greedy rich people to “foot more of the bill” for our out of control spending, the simple truth is we can’t tax our way out of this mess.

Nov 14, 2012 6:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Saulmonella wrote:

Screw it. time for Thelma and Louise! Gun it and go for the CLIFF!! Shut down the whole sorry system. I get NOTHING from the Federal,State or Town governments, except bills to pay for all those FREEBIES! Let them eat like the rest of the worlds poor. Rats on a stick all around.

Nov 14, 2012 6:08pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Mott wrote:

@TheNewWorld

“consumer goods will sky rocket”

That’s exactly the point where local manufacturers can make things cheaper than imports.

“consumer demands the cheapest deal possible”

We’ve seen the fallacy of these cheap-goods over the past 3 decades to the point where the consumer ends up losing his/her job manifesting in current levels of unemployment.

Nov 14, 2012 6:11pm EST  --  Report as abuse
altalks21 wrote:

Contributing to the problem is low wages. Any time businesses don’t provide employees with insurance plans and don’t pay a Living Wage to make ends meet, then the rest of us, taxpayers are paying for ANY government support their employees are receiving, such as welfare, food stamps, etc.

Nov 14, 2012 6:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Ollerus wrote:

I like Senator Dean Heller’s idea. If they cannot pass a budget, they don’t get paid. Call your representative and have him / her sign on with Senator Heller, DEMAND they do THEIR JOBS, or they DON’T GET PAID!

That’s right, you forfeit your Congressional salary if you cannot do your job. Just like it is out here in the real world, I don’t do my job, my boss fires my a$$ (i.e. I don’t get paid).

I’ll bet anyone on here $10 the debt problem would be solved by Christmas… any takers?

Nov 14, 2012 6:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@Mott

I agree with you. It is in the best interest of everyone. I just believe that it will be painful for several years to a decade, and the people that will get hit the hardest are the poor and middle class.

Nov 14, 2012 6:29pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Saulmonella wrote:

Thelma and Louise time. Gun it and head for the CLIFF. Darned if I care. The Federal, State and Town government have been TAKING for years and I get NOTHING BACK. Let them riot like Europe and Greece, eat out of dumpsters like the truly poor do! Screw all the “Gimmies”!

Nov 14, 2012 6:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
julianzr wrote:

There should not be any cuts, just tax increases. The deficit is there because year-over-year inadequate taxes are collected to meet the treasury needs. The proposed $1.6 T in 10 years revenue increase amounts to half of one minute of earning for a particular hedge fund manager, assuming it was entirely collected from the 1%.

Nov 14, 2012 6:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Tyrael wrote:

“The favors owed, the special interest groups that have bought the vote, The dem agenda, and the nefarious greed, the insidious, mind numbing, blatantly corrupt, persons now in charge cannot see they are wrong.”

Oh, this will be fun.

“The favors owed”
To whom? For what? Vague talking points contribute nothing.

“the special interest groups that have bought the vote”
Which ones are those? “Dem gay folks”? “Dem folk who like the weed”? Last I checked, those weren’t nearly as powerful as the bankers and super PACs that bought Romney’s campaign.

“The dem agenda”

Which is what, exactly? Equal rights? Making people accountable for their fair share? Not legislating the Dark Ages back into existence?

“and the nefarious greed”
Because if there’s one thing the Democratic Party is known for, it’s the multibillionares at the forefront! Oh, wait, that’s the *other* party…

“the insidious, mind numbing, blatantly corrupt, persons now in charge cannot see they are wrong”
Again, we’re not talking about the GOP here.

Please, try to contribute something instead of vague nothings and random “they is bad people!!!” speech.

Nov 14, 2012 6:35pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@willf123

Let me correct your facts, with the actual numbers.

Interest on the debt was $454 billion in Fiscal Year 2011.
The Department of Defense base budget in 2011 was $548.9 billion.
Removing the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy is projected to save $70 billion a year. The current budget deficit is $1,100 billion (1.1 trillion). Deficit spending by the Bush and Obama administration is going to have us paying more for interest than any other budget item (aside from S/S-Medicare) within the next decade.

This is what Keynesians don’t understand. Keep on spending that money, there is no such thing as debt and interest. Take a good look at Spain and Greece, that is exactly what they did. I am for letting all the bush tax cuts expire, and cutting spending to balance the budget. We will have a recession, but we will be better off because of it. If you continue to spend money and run this huge deficit, we WILL go bankrupt. The Dollar WILL collapse. We will enter into a decade long or longer depression that will affect the whole world (the dollar is the world’s currency). All of this is the result of Keynesian economics.

Nov 14, 2012 6:40pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

The fiscal cliff is not a cliff. It’s a fiscal cleanse. Raise revenue, cut government spending across the board? Let it happen.

Nov 14, 2012 7:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
bdsfedup wrote:

The fiscal cliff is a two sided sword. It is a tax increase but it is also huge huge cuts. As I understand it the US has a 14 trillion dollar economy, and we have a current growth rate of around 2%. The cuts represent close to a trillion dollars therefore around 7% of our economy taken away. That would result in a -5% growth which is a recession. Add to that tax increases for all and the problem just gets worse. This is why a compromise is needed. I am a supporter of the republican party and would be happy to see the tax increases if they were accompanied with the cuts. I find it offensive that all sitting and retired( voted out) members of congress and the senate receive a pension and medical benefits. It should be an honor to serve not a privileged high paying job with a pension.

Nov 14, 2012 7:08pm EST  --  Report as abuse
MichaelN wrote:

If letting the Bush tax cuts on the top percent is good, wouldn’t letting all of the Bush tax cuts expire be better? When that cliff hits, we need to be ready to jump.

Nov 14, 2012 7:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
americanguy wrote:

From the people who elected you again, Mr. President:
DO NOT BACK DOWN AGAIN ON THE TAX WELFARE FOR THE WEALTHY.
We elected you to do away with the welfare for the wealthy, please don’t forget it as you try to make nice nice.

Nov 14, 2012 7:58pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ponder wrote:

Tax comes first before cuts? Who would trust Obama? With his call for $1.6 trillion in new taxes and the Democrats calling for the fiscal cliff to happen, Republicans should just point out the exorbitant demand as a non-starter and take the Dems up on the fiscal cliff.

Nov 14, 2012 10:39pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Abulafiah wrote:

TheNewWorld wrote:
“@willf123

Let me correct your facts, with the actual numbers.

Interest on the debt was $454 billion in Fiscal Year 2011.”

If you are so keen on actual numbers, how about supplying the actual number for the percentage of annual spending that is?

I know you won’t do that, because it makes you scaremongering look ridiculous.

TheNewWorld wrote:
“This is what Keynesians don’t understand. Keep on spending that money, there is no such thing as debt and interest.”

You rant against Keynes because that is what Republicans are supposed to do, and following the herd is much easier than thinking.

In reality, if you dealt with facts instead of Fox, you would find that Keynes recommends deficit spending only in a down cycle, to keep the economy from going into recession. In the up cycle, Keynes recommend reducing spending and reducing debt.

Now, just imagine how much better off the USA would be right now, if only you Republicans had followed Keynes and reduced debt, instead of increasing the national debt by 89%.

TheNewWorld wrote:
“Take a good look at Spain and Greece, that is exactly what they did.”

Let me correct your facts, with the actual numbers.

In 2007, Spain’s debt level was around 40% of GDP – less than you Republicans had in the USA. Right now, it is around 70% – less than you Republicans left for Obama.

So no, excessive spending is not ‘what Spain did’, though it is what US Republicans did.

Nov 15, 2012 6:24am EST  --  Report as abuse
LynLeeshi wrote:

I’m fine with it. The point is, those who elected O8 should pay price! They have to feel the pain for their action.

Nov 15, 2012 8:19am EST  --  Report as abuse
aligatorhardt wrote:

I realize that the economy sucks, and people cannot buy a clue, but I am willing to give one away for free. Try and get this point: Obama has won a second term. He does not have to please voters or CEO’s. Obama cannot run for another term anyway, so now he can do what he thinks is right, without fear of loss of campaign funds or votes. The games of Republican extortion and blackmail over votes and campaign support are moot.

Nov 15, 2012 9:52am EST  --  Report as abuse
robb1 wrote:

Set capital gain tax to 0% on assets held more than 10 years.
Tax offshore labor outsourcing.
Rise 15% federal tax threshold on C-Corp to $ 250K.

Nov 15, 2012 3:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Chazz wrote:

Suggestion to the Republicans –

Shut up….capitulate….give in….

Let Obama and the Democrats enact their policies completely. IF they are right – then America benefits. IF they are wrong, EVERYONE will suffer and the “game” that politicians and the greedy have been playing for far too long will finally come to and end.

Nov 15, 2012 5:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

to shimloom, et al.: it helps if one doesn’t talk what he really has no clue about, but rather uses direct and credible sources like this one…

“The interesting thing is that the tax code, I wouldn’t call it a war, but it is a struggle. Groups try to keep their own taxes down. People lobby to keep their estate taxes down. They lobby to keep their capital gains taxes down. So, if this is a war – I wouldn’t call it a war, I’d call it a struggle – but, if this is a war, my side has had the nuclear bomb. We’ve got K-Street, we’ve got lobbyists, we’ve got money on our side in terms of lobbyists. Deb does not have a lobbyist. She doesn’t have anybody remotely that’s representing her. But, believe me, plenty of rich families have lobbyists that are working like crazy to get rid of estate taxes, lower capital gain taxes, whatever it may be. So, if there has been a war going on, the war has been waged by the people who are very well to do who are trying to shift the burden onto people like that and away from themselves.”
- Warren Buffett

Nov 15, 2012 9:59pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Numb3rTech wrote:

Hell, this is a no win situation. The government does not know how to create jobs. They want to tax everything including those that can create jobs.

The pork spending and a lot of the government programs need to be cut. The new Affordable Care Act is not really affordable. especially at this time of declining wages, full time jobs changing to part time jobs and just the poor economic conditions of the entire economy.

In my opionion, we are going to be screwed no matter what. And I support Mr. President Obama, just not the immediate implementation of some of his programs.

Nov 17, 2012 3:29am EST  --  Report as abuse
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