Obama, Boehner talk and exchange new offers on "fiscal cliff"

Comments (40)

boehner and his deadlock gang will get the blame for noe moving forward with policies that the majority of americans approved by voting for the president.

Dec 10, 2012 7:24pm EST  --  Report as abuse

boehner and his deadlock gang will get the blame for noe moving forward with policies that the majority of americans approved by voting for the president.

Dec 10, 2012 7:24pm EST  --  Report as abuse
dkbaz wrote:

Obama is basically a Republican. Watch as he “reluctantly” gives in to Boner’s demands and ends up compromising Social Security and Medicare. Don’t expect any changes to the war machine- that is a sacred cow and we need it to attack more countries and complete the destruction of the Arab world.

Dec 10, 2012 8:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
sans wrote:

Pity for the Republicans. They do not know what is coming due them in Step 2 in 2014.

Dec 10, 2012 8:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Globalman wrote:

Both sides of the aisle bear equal responsibility. Taxes have to increase for everyone to pay for our spending binges. We need more revenue and less expense. Both sides are right and both wrong. Obama was elected on more spending under entitlements and republicans lost due to lack of flexibility. The bill is coming due for our country, for all,of us regardless of politics.

Dec 10, 2012 9:15pm EST  --  Report as abuse
gregbrew56 wrote:

You all know what to do next election? Vote for ANYBODY except the incumbents. Do you think the “powers that be” will get THAT message?

Dec 10, 2012 9:45pm EST  --  Report as abuse
mebfromca. wrote:

Just return the monies that did not “trickle down” as they should have,
so that the average person had the possibility of earning a fair and living wage. Perhaps then we would not be subsidizing those same people.
Then all would be a lot happier, with jobs and education, there would be a lot less humans in jail, because they would be happier earning their own way – remember those days??? Before greed took the lead in our lives? When people like Hulett an Packard didn`t take it off the top, but cared for their employees, yes, and even paid for their medical insurance. I could go on but by now you should get my drift.
Just lets get this USA back to USA instead of this current 2% ers!!!

Dec 10, 2012 11:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
TnMuse wrote:

I have the perfect solution to our national debt problems.

Let the rich pay off all parts of our national debt and present budget related to their special interests:

•Cost of Bailouts and loans to domestic and foreign corporations and banks
• Costs to repair the destruction of our dollar initiated by the FED and exploited by big banks
• Cost of wars to gain strongholds on oil and minerals in the Mideast by big corporations
• Cost of aid to countries to purchase weapons of war or to build their military
• Cost of aid to countries for favorable treatment / protection of multinational corporations, or corporations that move into foreign countries from America taking our jobs
• Cost of private contractors hired to protect city sized Embassies that cost billions to maintain
• Cost of private contractors hired to nation build
• Costs of the drug war
• Cost of care for our US veterans who have been maimed physically and mentally in the corporate initiated wars
• Cost of care for all of the illegal immigrants they brought in through corporate Visa programs to take our jobs and who didn’t leave or are now illegal, as well as those violating our porous borders on their own. This includes the increased costs of our Medical care, food and housing programs, school systems and justice systems.

The rest of us will concentrate our contributions on rebuilding our infrastructure, providing education and creating jobs, helping OUR OWN poor and homeless, and restoring our rights and our reputation.

Dec 10, 2012 11:21pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

dkbaz: Keep in mind that Obama does what he can, but he’s severely limited to what he can do. It’s not his fault; it’s ours. We allowed our democratic Republic to morph into a plutocracy. It’s a sin we are paying heavily for, and will continue to pay for. And there’s no easy way to undo it because we let them take over, and once in power, conventional means of kicking them out of power will probably fail. That’s what we get for not paying close enough attention to the workings of our government. The people will have to organize and take our government back. In the meantime, corporate America will continue to have its way with us.

For example, Obama knows that a single payer, not-for-profit healthcare system is the only rational means of administering affordable healthcare to a large population. But had he tried to push through such a plan he wouldn’t have accomplished anything except a guarantee that he’d be a one-term President. So he got done what he could that would at least be an improvement over our absurdly inefficient system. And even that was almost impossible, even though it was a Republican plan to start with. Obama’s a smart guy. He knew that was the only chance he had, and it ruffled A LOT of feathers.

It may seem ironic, but our hope probably rests with immigrants and minorities simply because they are less likely to buy into the propaganda that the plutocrats feed us daily through the media that they own. Their mistrust of the traditional white man will probably end up being America’s salvation. I suppose there’s some karmic justice in that.

Dec 10, 2012 11:30pm EST  --  Report as abuse
fromthecenter wrote:

how about let the poor on medicaid and seniors on medicare buy their prescription drugs from Canada? How much would that save us?

Dec 11, 2012 12:15am EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

fromthecenter: That’s a great idea. Too bad the Republicans put the nix on that pragmatic idea by passing a law making it illegal. It’s something the Dems tried to allow after the Bush Medicare D Prescription Drug Plan was passed, with a restriction on Medicare officials from negotiating with pharmaceutical companies for lower prescription drug prices. It’s so unAmerican, and yet people keep electing these nuts. They actually passed legislation that prevents tax payers from saving money through lower Medicare drug prices. They’re forcing the government to waste tax payers’ money to increase the profits of the pharmaceutical companies. Where is the outrage?

Dec 11, 2012 12:43am EST  --  Report as abuse
TnMuse wrote:

I agree with you, flashrooster…”For example, Obama knows that a single payer, not-for-profit healthcare system is the only rational means of administering affordable healthcare to a large population.”

It runs all over me when they talk about “health care” when they are actually talking about how to pay the insurance companies. Big insurance is out of hand and one of our biggest downfalls. It’s not just the poor, but also the middle class who can no longer afford to seek medical treatment.

And I agree with you “fromthecenter”, while the FDA protects us from bad medicine they allow Big Pharma to run the show…and we still get bad medicine. We can’t afford their medicine and we need alternatives!

Dec 11, 2012 12:51am EST  --  Report as abuse
wrote:

If you ask me, this deal is actually not even a compromise. Temporarily increase taxes on wealthy to make up for the lopsided economy. Check. Decrease spending by a huge margin to keep the natonal debt from increasing. Check. Reform tax code to prevent damaging loopholes. Check. As a party-neutral citizen, I find this “compromise” to be a blessing in disguise for the US as a whole.

Dec 11, 2012 4:25am EST  --  Report as abuse
americanguy wrote:

What part of “the majority of Americans voted for a tax increse on the wealthy” do the Republicans not understand?
Are Republicans anti-democracy? Do Republicans not believe in “We the people”?
Republicans want the USA to be a dictatorship where they rule by force.

Dec 11, 2012 7:14am EST  --  Report as abuse
txguy2112 wrote:

From what I am seeing this “negotiation” appears to be Obama saying “you give me exactly what I want then we might discuss what you want” and the republicans saying “we will talk about what you want when you show us what you would be willing to give us”. Obama needs to stop campainging and start doing his job as the chief executive. What I see mostly from the democrats is that they are prepared to let these negotiations fail so long as the republicans can be blamed for it and the republicans are prepared to fail unless they can stop the tax increase on the top 2%. Both sides need to start negotiating in good faith.

Dec 11, 2012 7:15am EST  --  Report as abuse
tickleme.elmo wrote:

Looks like Obozos Free Sh*t Army has landed.

Hey Honey boo boos. You are not allowed to steal someones money just because you voted for it.

Dec 11, 2012 8:23am EST  --  Report as abuse
fowldsja wrote:

Ticklemeelmo… So raising taxes is stealing people’s money? And, you really believe people want free sh*t. How much Foxnews do you watch? Wow! Making money is not easy anymore, never has been for a lot of people. When you are born poor, how many people figure their way out of that, takes time and a lot of hard work, a bad economy just stacks it even more against you. I’ve known people of many good professions having difficulty finding jobs, social programs saved a lot of people these last few years. I am a business owner myself, and I work my tail off, but it takes a lot of money and a lot of time to get many companies off the ground, I guarantee a lot of people dont have access to the necessary resources to make these things happen. And, your an idiot if you dont think republican policies dont kill the middle class. They definitely give people like me a lot more flexibility to make money, but we are truly losing our middle class, which is our consumer class and main economic driver. If you know anything about real economics and not that superficial bs they are feeding you at FN your opinions would be completely different.

Our social programs never made us Europe, they are weak in comparison. No country has ever gone to war and lowered taxes at the same time before, this was always bound to happen. And, these guys are doing their jobs, they have a negotiating plan and they will find the middle here, no doubt about it. This stuff just takes time and this is very difficult legislation, especially after the dems rushed the stimulus four years ago. This will happen, and I think this will also be proof the imbecile tea party era is finally coming to a conclusion, thank god.

Dec 11, 2012 11:54am EST  --  Report as abuse
fowldsja wrote:

Ticklemeelmo… So raising taxes is stealing people’s money? And, you really believe people want free sh*t. How much Foxnews do you watch? Wow! Making money is not easy anymore, never has been for a lot of people. When you are born poor, how many people figure their way out of that, takes time and a lot of hard work, a bad economy just stacks it even more against you. I’ve known people of many good professions having difficulty finding jobs, social programs saved a lot of people these last few years. I am a business owner myself, and I work my tail off, but it takes a lot of money and a lot of time to get many companies off the ground, I guarantee a lot of people dont have access to the necessary resources to make these things happen. And, your an idiot if you dont think republican policies dont kill the middle class. They definitely give people like me a lot more flexibility to make money, but we are truly losing our middle class, which is our consumer class and main economic driver. If you know anything about real economics and not that superficial bs they are feeding you at FN your opinions would be completely different.

Our social programs never made us Europe, they are weak in comparison. No country has ever gone to war and lowered taxes at the same time before, this was always bound to happen. And, these guys are doing their jobs, they have a negotiating plan and they will find the middle here, no doubt about it. This stuff just takes time and this is very difficult legislation, especially after the dems rushed the stimulus four years ago. This will happen, and I think this will also be proof the imbecile tea party era is finally coming to a conclusion, thank god.

Dec 11, 2012 11:54am EST  --  Report as abuse
Butch_from_PA wrote:

Pay for the wars or suffer the consequences.
If you are rich, you are clever and gained on the backs of others so should be able to easily afford to pay a very small percentage of your gross income.

If you are poor and lazy – you should not be granted a free ticket to sit on your couch eating chips and watching Reality T.V. The government needs programs to put you to use and get your brain working again.

If you dump cheap crap from a country with oppressive working standards – this is not free trade – this is unfair trade and you need to have tarrifs put on you so the poor ambitious Americans can get back in the game.

If you are working for us in congress – get your fat stubborn lobbyist laden arse up and in the game making America healthy – you will die from all the lard in your veins from the lobbyist feeding at the trough and deserve to be slaughtered for duping us with your elections marketing.

Dec 11, 2012 1:02pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PortlandME wrote:

txguy2112 and the rest of Obama haters.

1) On Jan. 1st 2013, all taxes go up. The Rich will be paying 39% instead 37% because the Republicans were too stupid to make a deal.

2) The Republicans will be blamed, and rightfully so, for defending the rich instead of passing the middle-class tax cuts that was passed in the Senate.

3) A majority of Americans voted for Obama and his policy solutions.

So you can try and blame it Obama or call him every name in the book, except a child of God, but you cannot with a straight face blame this on Obama.

Dec 11, 2012 1:26pm EST  --  Report as abuse
bonmom wrote:

After how hard and specifically Obama campaigned about renewing the temporary tax cuts only for income $250K and below, how can the Repubs think he could back down on that point? They have no choice there, none of them, because even voters who did not vote for Obama are in favor of this one point. If they do not give Obama this point, any consequences will be 100% on their plate, and it will hurt them come Congress re-election time. Give it up.

Dec 11, 2012 1:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
crittertron wrote:

BEST … HEADLINE … EVER.

Dec 11, 2012 2:04pm EST  --  Report as abuse
moonhill wrote:

I agree with someone who said
Chalk up another victory for the class-envy moochers and another loss for liberty. And watch the wealthy here do what they’re doing everywhere else that taxes are being raised on the evil “rich”. They’ll change their behavior, they’ll find new shelters and/or take their wealth elsewhere. And the government will not get anywhere near the revenues they project from raising the rates – and then the middle-class will have to take their lumps because all the promised spending cuts will never materialize. Some things never change.

Dec 11, 2012 2:22pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bensony wrote:

We have been following this fiscal cliff issue from the developing world. There are several unbelievable things noted. The most glaring is that the Republican Party is reported to be going all out against the plan to tax the super rich more. Instead the Republicans want the middle class to be taxed more to pay for the rich’s extravagances. Another is blaming China for their domestic troubles. This is a really unbelievable situation. It calls into question the intelligence and common sense of American politicians. There is no need to delve any more into why America has been on the decline. The reason is well demonstrated in the fiscal cliff issue: low IQ politicians running the country. It is quite clear to our minds that America is doomed since such politicians are going to be around for a long time.

Dec 11, 2012 2:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

Bensony: Unfortunately, you’re right. But it’s also the dumb Americans who support the Republicans and keep them in power.

Consider the poster moonhill (above). He calls Americans who believe that taxes on the rich should go up “moochers” and that such a tax increase amounts to a loss of liberty. First notice how he fails to defend his position with any facts. It’s all opinion presented as fact. Note how he calls it a “loss for liberty” even as his party refuses to do what the majority of Americans want. And it’s obvious that his position doesn’t give any consideration to our nation’s history, failing to recognize the correlation between our current historically low tax rates, our current below-average federal revenue intake, and our current high deficits. Nor is he considering where tax rates were when America functioned much more efficiently and better for its people.

It’s because he is more dedicated to his rightwing ideology than to his country and its well-being. He’s probably convinced that his ideological principles are the best thing for our country, except he has formulated that belief without the benefit of facts, history, and basic reasoning. As far as he’s concerned, his political principles just dropped out of heaven and, therefore, shouldn’t be questioned. What he’s not privy to is the fact that those “principles” that he clings to were intentionally designed to enrich a small group of people at the expense of our nation and its citizens. He, and many others like him, have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker (a fishing analogy :O) He’s being duped so that a relatively small group of plutocrats can amass great wealth while taking over our government. This dynamic has happened in various ways time and time again through history, rulers taking all the nation’s wealth.

I’ll repeat a comment I made last night. Ironically, it’s looking like America’s best hope rests in the minorities who usually get screwed by those promoting moonhill’s false principles. They’re less likely to buy into the propaganda that these mostly old, white males are pumping into our heads. Despite what moonhill says, they have become the rational Americans.

Dec 11, 2012 3:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Bush tax cuts are disappearing, unemployment is dropping, stock market continues to gain, republicans still hoping Rasmussen poll was right and Romney actually won, Inauguration coming up for Obama…. this is a good Christmas.

Dec 11, 2012 3:42pm EST  --  Report as abuse
KyuuAL wrote:

No tax raises on the rich? No deal.

Dec 11, 2012 4:17pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

“GOP’s Bohner Stands Firm, Republicans Come Together.”

And all this time, we thought they were homophobic bigots. It’s good to see them loosening up a bit.

Dec 11, 2012 4:23pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Obsilutely wrote:

And yet again, flashrooster nails it. I find quite a bit of hope in these rational underdogs mentioned in flashrooster’s comment. I live in one of the reddest states and there are currently more Obama stickers on vehicles and Obama signs in front yards than I have ever seen before. We are in the middle of a transformation of mass communication and it seems that those that are more able to compete (those who grew up with information technologies and those who are information professionals) are no longer afraid to stand up for their beliefs. They are beginning to use the wide-spread availability of information (namely research) to combat opinion-injected arguments. One thing I have certainly noticed changing is how much more bitter those who are resistant to change are becoming. The boomer generation (at least in my area) is disengaging the younger generations and becoming almost reclusive. They don’t seem to feel comfortable discussing their opinions publicly because they usually have little information to back it up (if they do, it’s usually a biased media outlet or a report containing skewed information). Even in private, the old, white men are no longer discussing grandchildren or sports without the mention of some negative comment regarding their perspective on politics. They have moved from focusing on the problem to focusing on the person (or political affiliation). The old methods of propagandized opinions and fallacious arguments are no longer viable in this information age. As a group that seems to be diminishing (angry old white men), they have a choice to be bitter and frightened or open to changes that are taking place in the world. They are not necessary for society to move forward and the sooner they realize this the less painful it will be for them. This is what I believe is occurring in the House. It just seems to be a group of individuals who refuse to recognize that they have been defeated and will (much like Allen West) never concede to the truth.

Dec 11, 2012 4:24pm EST  --  Report as abuse
xyz2055 wrote:

flashrooster..looks like you’re picking up a fan club (lol)….i usually agree with your comments as well..even if I’m one of those old white males (62 years young…you know you’re getting old when they add “years young” after your age). Regarding your comment about historically low taxes, below average federal revenue and high deficits….I think that Bill Clinton’s speech this year at the DNC is probably among the best I’ve ever heard. His folksy simple representation of complex problems was priceless…..”Arithmetic”! Throughout our governments history you could boil most of our problems down to governments simple inability to balance a checkbook. We don’t need a balanced budget amendment. We need Congressman that have basic home economic skills…balancing a checkbook. There seems to be a disconnect in our government to tie revenues to expenditures. They have historically treated these functions as separate unrelated activities. Then again…the ability to simply print more money or a seemingly endless supply of funding from China (no limit) lends itself to the current economic problems we find ourselves in. What is it that you hear every football coach say when their team isn’t doing well???? Back to basics! That’s what we need. A government that instead of trying to solve every problem in the world. Sets priorities within it’s means and prioritizes what problems it will tackle. Quite frankly…screw the Middle East…that’s a poor investment. They have been killing each other for centuries and there’s nothing we can do to stop it. Quit buying their oil seems like a better solution than chasing good money after bad in a losing proposition.

Dec 11, 2012 5:15pm EST  --  Report as abuse
apache11 wrote:

Obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff so he can get rid of the Bush tax cuts for good and slash defense spending while blaming the GOP. That has always been the plan of the most progressive democrats. Only by getting rid of the Bush tax cuts completely can he have the necessary revenue for his stimulus programs and the new healthcare program.

Dec 11, 2012 5:36pm EST  --  Report as abuse
apache11 wrote:

Obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff so he can get rid of the Bush tax cuts for good and slash defense spending while blaming the GOP. That has always been the plan of the most progressive democrats. Only by getting rid of the Bush tax cuts completely can he have the necessary revenue for his stimulus programs and the new healthcare program.

Dec 11, 2012 5:36pm EST  --  Report as abuse

I have been around to long not to think they know exactly what they are going to do.

But they always have to do the “Drama Thing” for the masses.

Taxes are going up. On almost everybody. Get used to it.

Dec 11, 2012 5:54pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ForLoveofUSA wrote:

Does everyone really like all of this ‘slamming’ of the Dems and Repubs? i say this humbly, but it is quite dis-heartening to see so many American’s allow themselves to engage in such repugnant conversation. What is it, do people just like to fight? I only read a few comments, but the ‘attacking’ and ‘name calling’ is beneath EVERY American. We are a sophisticated people. We need to stop trashing opposing government parties. It’s not good for our country.

Dec 11, 2012 5:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
vantheman wrote:

The GOP and conservatives must stop telling us that the Obama tax proposal will be deadly to small business owners when this is simply a flat out lie. At the same time, Democrats—and the White House—must quit pretending that the increase is a meaningful step towards their version of tax justice and the way out of our debt problems as this argument is, in large part, equally disingenuous. You can now access an easy to use, online calculator to work out what your tax bill would be under the three possible scenarios—taxes you will owe if things remain as they are today; taxes you will owe should the Bush tax cuts be fully revoked for everyone; and taxes you will owe should the Obama tax plan be adopted. According to the Tax Foundation—and I highly encourage you to go to the on-line calculator and run the numbers for yourself— what do you imagine the tax increase will be for the average American household with taxable earnings between $250,000 and $300,000 a year?

$199. Sorry but that is not going to pay for all the entitlements.

Dec 11, 2012 5:58pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PCScipio wrote:

With two unfunded wars and a prescription drug benefit combined with a tax cut, GOP hysteria over paying down the deficit quickly seems a tad disingenuous. So, putting that aside, we essentially have one party that wants to bolster the middle class and protect the poor and elderly, and another party that wants to further benefit the wealthy and corporations at the expense of the everyone else. Is there really a choice here for anyone who thinks and cares?

Dec 11, 2012 6:08pm EST  --  Report as abuse

Are these offers public so they can actually be analyzed, or do we have to rely on “he said/she said” reporting on this issue? So far, every story I’ve read on this recent offer/counter offer merely consists of one side accusing the other’s plan of lacking specifics.

Dec 11, 2012 6:47pm EST  --  Report as abuse
pilgrimson wrote:

I’d like to see Oprah, reputedly a billionaire, pay not just “a little more” as Obama keeps saying, but A Lot More. Also the sports figures with their multi-multi-million dollar contracts. Many of these a “persons of color” and they need to participate more fully in paying more taxes. After all, they’ve got it. Not all wealthy people are old white men.

The fundamental problem of our federal budget way out of balance year after year into the distant future, is not going to be solved or even addressed by the minor tamperings that the politicians are proposing. Trillion dollar deficits in perpetuity, offset by tens of billions here and there.

Dec 11, 2012 7:00pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

apache11: “Obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff so he can get rid of the Bush tax cuts for good and slash defense spending while blaming the GOP.”

That’s funny, but makes absolutely zero sense. Rarely does the day go by that Obama isn’t pleading with the GOP that we go ahead and pass a bill protecting the tax cuts for the Middle Class. What’s so bazaar about your claim is that everything in reality shows that the opposite is true.

Let’s suppose it is true for a moment. Why not outfox Obama and actually do it? Beat him at his own game and pass legislation making the tax cuts on the Middle Class permanent? That will show that rascal Obama. Why don’t the Republicans do it? Do you blame Obama for that, too?

Here’s the deal. When this sequestration was set up, set up by Congress, Obama had offered a budget plan to Bohner, but Bohner turned it down because of the taxes. That would have avoided this sequestration. The sequestration was designed by Congress, not Obama. So now the time is up and sequestration is about to kick in. Obama is saying, here’s one thing we can all agree on, protecting tax cuts for the Middle Class. So let’s go ahead and do that, so 98% of Americans won’t have a tax hike hanging over their heads. But the Republicans say no. And you blame Obama for the Republicans refusal to protect the Middle Class tax cuts? You say getting rid of all the Bush tax cuts is Obama’s real plan, along with cuts in defense. Yes, that’s funny. But I’m sure you have proof, eh?

Dec 11, 2012 7:42pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

That’s right, pilgrimson, let’s just raise taxes on those people of color. They’ve had it too good for too long. Time to bring them down a few notches. That’s the spirit. And the Republicans wonder why they lost the election LOL

Dec 11, 2012 7:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
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