Odds rise for "fiscal cliff" fight entering 2013

Comments (27)
calendarcal wrote:

“75% believe…” what does it matter anymore. Right and Wrong are decided by public opinion polls… and public opinion is driven by the media. This is a sick country…

Dec 13, 2012 8:54pm EST  --  Report as abuse
dmanning wrote:

Right now, Mitch McConnell in the Senate is hatching one of his trademark BS plans to do some puny tax deal, stall any real deficit cutting, push the economy to yet another brink in a couple of months with the debt-ceiling fight, and try to portray it as a Republican victory. Remember, it was McConnell who dreamed up the notion of the super committee, the sequester, and the entire fiscal-cliff trigger in the debt showdown last year. This crisis was manufactured by the Filibuster King. And the next one will be as well. For whatever I always thought of Republicans, I did believe they were a party that tried to keep the interests of business and the markets as their first priority. Now, we have the leader of the Republicans in the Senate, hijacking our economy, and threatening the private sector with chronic Washington crises. Isn’t this the exact opposite of the storied Republican notion of keeping government from intefering with private enterprise? It is interference on a gargantuan scale. Look how their whole core philosophy has been perverted.

Republicans have turned off Latinos, African-Americans, women, gays and lesbians. The only group left to alienate are entrepeneurs.

Dec 13, 2012 9:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
foiegras wrote:

Conservatives? The GOP is not conservative, it is a group of radical insurgents whose policies have wrecked the American economy – cutting taxes, running deficits, deregulating the financial services industry, starting unnecessary wars to feed the military industrial complex. The only thing that remains is the lie that shines through their obtuse rhetoric, “The problem is spending.”

Dec 13, 2012 9:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
RSaltyDog wrote:

Stop the drama and jump the cliff! Yes it hurts stocks but if you have the money to play on Wall Street then its not life or death. Wall Street has already had their bailouts so I have zero concern for Wall Street. I hope we jump the cliff. Revenues will be raised on all. Tells the TEAParty who has ruined the GOP to take a hike. And makes huge cuts in the inflated, bloated, over-spending on the Defense budget. Boehner was all concerned about jobs in the 2010 elections and what has he done on that promise? Zip. So jump the cliff and skip the drama.

Dec 13, 2012 9:47pm EST  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

“Congress is never going to give up our ability to control the purse,” Boehner said… Of course not, b/c the 2% control the US Congress…

Dec 13, 2012 10:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse

quite a show. taxes will be raised and services will be cut, no matter what.

bend over.

Dec 14, 2012 12:01am EST  --  Report as abuse
1WorldDone wrote:

As Pelosi would say, “Let’s jump off this cliff and see what’s in it!”

Dec 14, 2012 1:30am EST  --  Report as abuse
guppy1111 wrote:

Americas aim is to borrow and print more money. This will reduce the U.S. dollars value, and so default it’s overseas Creditors by way of Currency Devaluation! !
Don’t trust Americans ! ! !

Dec 14, 2012 1:57am EST  --  Report as abuse
Counselor1 wrote:

This could become a Jobs Hostage Extortion Hustle: Republicans insist they won’t deal unless Social Security, Medicare, etc. are significantly cut; they miss the deadline, millions on unemployment comp loose theri payments, then millions more are laid off as sequestration cuts de-fund jobs. That would put tremendous pressure on Obama and Deomcrats to give away some of our general Welfare entitlements.

Private bank speculation caused the panic that destroyed $12.8 trillion household wealth, 8.5 million jobs killed, and millions of homes lost. Treasury and the Fed then promised them from $1.4 trillion up to $29 trillion in low interest loans to save those private banks. Partly by Obama’s own circumstances, personality and responsibility, and partly by endless Republican de-legitimizing of him, when the Republicans struck against raising the debt ceiling he agreed to $4 trillion of austerity! Go over the cliff or not, $4 trillion of cuts, sequestered or surgical, will enable a lot more job killing, income stagnation, maybe a new Great Depression.

Is it time for alarmed Americans to hold, on private land, but with media present, all around the U.S., orderly demonstrations to clearly convey extreme opposition to severe austerity! Repeal that deal. Vivid, although lawful, nonviolent actions, such as burnings in effigy of those who set this up, should be undertaken. Surely there’s be enough effigies: responsible parties include Obama, McConnell, Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, maybe Dick Armey, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Grover Norquist.

Dec 14, 2012 2:50am EST  --  Report as abuse
Realaskan wrote:

All for show. This is to sell it to the bases. They probably have a deal pretty well worked out already.

Dec 14, 2012 3:48am EST  --  Report as abuse
cpasteve wrote:

It seems to me that the basic problem is that the White house is characterizing raising rates on the top two percent as “the fundamental issue.”

The fundamental issue is trillion dollar annual deficits as far as the eye can see. That is the fundamental issue, not a punitive tax on the wealthy that makes everyone feel good without doing much to address the fundamental issue.

Dec 14, 2012 7:57am EST  --  Report as abuse
PKFA wrote:

The “fundamental issue” is that the fundamental issue is NOT raising taxes on the 2%; rather, it is reigning in out of control spending. Anyone with half a brain knows that the revenues gleaned from the additional taxes proposed by the White House are a drop in the proverbial bucket. So why is this such a key point? To promote their class warfare political agenda.

And Boehner is waaaayy outclassed in this fight. He’s not as smart, nor as ideologically driven, as Obama and ultimately he will lose. He and the Republicans pay lip service to fiscal responsibility, but sadly their record is not so good in that regard. Point of fact is that all save the Congressional freshmen have feet of clay on the spending issue. And the freshman have been vilified by the media and castrated by the Republican establishment.

So we have a redistributionist White House that controls the dialog, successfully positioning the issue as one of class warfare instead of over spending, an inept Congressional negotiator with no mandate from his fellow party members, and stifled voices of reason from the 2010 election. Add to that an electorate bought and paid for with promises of free this and free that. Enough with the “journalistic” drama. Is there really and doubt how this will turn out?

Dec 14, 2012 8:25am EST  --  Report as abuse
Rich_F wrote:

through the first 2 months of the fiscal year the government is on track for a $1.8 trillion deficit. and you liberal lemmings are stuck ignoring the great white shark coming at you instead focusing on the cleaner fish. wake up for pete’s sake! this is a SPENDING issue. why are we wasting all our time on the 5%?

Dec 14, 2012 10:18am EST  --  Report as abuse
Rich_F wrote:

PKFA if you’re going to post logical, coherent, correct posts you better go somewhere else that isn’t tolerated around here.

Dec 14, 2012 10:20am EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

Bohner and the Republicans are useless. They not only can’t govern, but the stop everyone else from governing, too. They’re a menace to America.

Dec 14, 2012 2:06pm EST  --  Report as abuse
bobber1956 wrote:

“The “fiscal cliff” impasse is raising the odds that Congress will fail to meet a year-end deadline ”

Really? If it was just up to Congress (red and blue) this would have been settled, and the budget, and the debt ceiling. But it is not just up to Congress. There is the king obstructionist to deal with. In time everyone will see that.

Dec 14, 2012 3:32pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

bobber1956: How can you honestly blame this on Obama? These taxes were never meant to be permanent in the first place. They were intended to expire at the end of 2010. Republicans forced Obama hand then, threatening to let the taxes go up on the other 98% of Americans if Obama didn’t extend the tax cuts for the richest 2%. Because the economy was still so fragile and because the GOP was also holding the payroll tax cuts and unemployment extension hostage, Obama capitulated, on the condition that the tax cuts for the wealthiest were allowed to return to the rates prior to the Bush tax cuts in two years. Obama kept his end of the bargain and signed the extension into law. The 2 years extension is up. Time for the Republicans to keep THEIR word.

The Republicans have once again deceived the American people. They told us that tax cuts would be temporary. This was during a time of war. No other President and Congress has cut taxes while engaged in a major military conflict, much less two. Bush and the Republicans did it anyway. Okay, but only temporarily. Now we see they were lying about that, too. The American people support raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans back to the reasonable rates we had under Clinton. The House Republicans don’t have an argument. They need to do what the American people, the President, and the Senate wants. This time it’s crystal clear who is being the obstructionist and who is fighting to do the will of the people, and to do the right thing.

Why would you support cutting taxes during a time of war if all it is going to do is generate a lot of debt, which it did? No other President has done that. Are you going to argue that Bush and the Republicans are smarter than all of America’s past President’s and Congresses? Time to pay for those wars.

Dec 14, 2012 8:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Abulafiah wrote:

It is funny watching the Republicans panic, because they know they have lost this, there is nothing they can do to stop it, and the electorate blame the GOP.

Obama has no need to stop this fiscal cliff, but Republicans do.

Obama can let it happen then present a couple of bills to cut taxes for everybody except the wealthy, and to increase military spending to a level he likes.

Then Republicans can’t let it happen because then they would have a choice of obstructing tax cuts and military spending and making themselves look really stupid, or agreeing with Obama and making themselves look really irrelevant. The only way they can avoid this is to try and pressure Obama into a deal by screaming that the sky is falling (the same old same old…) and hoping that people believe it.

It is not working….

Dec 15, 2012 4:20am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@foeigras

It is impossible to run a deficit with no spending. If I spend nothing there is no possibility for a deficit. Spending is the problem.

Dec 15, 2012 7:23am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@Abulafiah

Fiscal cliff = recession. Also don’t forget the debt ceiling fight is coming up shortly. Obama’s legacy is going to be ruined with the next four years. The highest deficit spending ever, the highest unemployment rate since the great depression, and a new recession that will be named for Obama. We have ran out of road to kick the can down.

Dec 15, 2012 7:28am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@flashrooster

Obama passed the same tax cut that Bush signed during the war. So two President’s have indeed done it. He loves tax cuts and spending, deficits, and debt. Just like Bush.

Dec 15, 2012 7:31am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@flashrooster

Obama passed the same tax cut that Bush signed during the war. So two President’s have indeed done it. He loves tax cuts and spending, deficits, and debt. Just like Bush.

Dec 15, 2012 7:31am EST  --  Report as abuse
Abulafiah wrote:

TheNewWorld wrote:
“Obama’s legacy is going to be ruined with the next four years.”

If the Republican-controlled Congress refuses to increase spending because the GOP is too stupid to see what austerity has done to Europe, and the Republican-controlled Congress refuses to increase the debt ceiling because they put party before country, it is not Obama’s legacy that suffers.

Were you asleep when you Republicans lost the election? You seem to think that Republicans repeating all the idiocy that just lost them an election is going to make them popular; a triumph of Fox News over reality.

Dec 15, 2012 9:01am EST  --  Report as abuse
TheNewWorld wrote:

@Abulafiah

The President is the President. He had a Democrat congress and a Democrat Senate during 2008-2010. Yet you blamed the Republicans. Clinton had a Republican Congress from 1994-2000, yet I am sure that you consider all of his accomplishments and his Presidency his own. Reagan whom I am sure you love to demonize had a Democrat Congress and Democrat Senate. Same with George HW Bush. Oh and lest we forget, GW Bush had a Democrat Congress in 2006 and no one had a majority of the Senate for his whole 8 years. So by your logic, it was the Democrat recession that Obama inherited.

You don’t get it both ways. Great Presidents work with the opposing party. Obama is not a great President. Presidents have the power to veto bills. The Bush tax cuts ended in 2010. These are the Obama tax cuts. He has the right to not sign these bills. Everything from 2008 – 2016 will belong to Obama. Nothing gets passed without his signature.

Once again, I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian. I despise Fox News, just as much as I despise MSNBC. Just like I despise Bill O’Reilly and Bill Maher. Romney lost a Presidential election. Republicans didn’t lose. Otherwise we would be looking at 60+ Democrats in the Senate and a huge Democrat majority in the House, since those seats are elected every two years. You exemplify what is wrong with America. It is blind partisan cheerleading, constantly blaming the other guys, and never taking responsiblity for anything. You are the exact same as the Republican cheerleaders. Heads in the sand or up your party leader’s posterior.

Dec 15, 2012 11:11am EST  --  Report as abuse
edgyinchina wrote:

PKFA and cpasteve have apparently forgotten the two unfunded wars GW started in Iraq and Iran…. They also seem to have forgotten that Bill gave GW a 4 Trillion dollar surplus (which GW immediately gave awa to his 10 best friends), and they have forgotten that when Bill was Prez, taxes where much higher than they are now… How convenient to forget those little things…
They forget that it was GW’s policy (dictated by Cheney) that regulators where to ‘stay away’ from their duties so that the banks and financiers could rape the country and purposely create the biggest financial disaster in 70 years… How convenient sto forget these little things…

Dec 15, 2012 10:09pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Abulafiah wrote:

TheNewWorld wrote:
“He had a Democrat congress and a Democrat Senate during 2008-2010. ”

No he didn’t. Do some research. Check the figures. It is not hard to do. He had a super-majority for a matter of weeks only, and if you could manage a bit more research you will find that Republicans filibustered just about everything – 246 of them, compared with 133 in GWBs first term.

And yes, I do blame Republicans for abusing the filibuster to stonewall everything. Who do you blame for Republican actions?

TheNewWorld wrote:
“Oh and lest we forget, GW Bush had a Democrat Congress in 2006 and no one had a majority of the Senate for his whole 8 years. So by your logic, it was the Democrat recession that Obama inherited.”

By your logic perhaps, but not by mine. I understand enough about economics to know that the writing was on the wall for the US economy as early as 2004, and the cracks were showing by mid-2005, and that the slow down that preceded the recession began in the last quarter of 2006. If you Republicans had not chosen to ignore all the warning signs, you could have avoided destroying America.

By the way, you are also factually wrong on this. GWB did *not* have a Democrat controlled congress in 2006. Democrats won the mid-term election in November 2006, and took their seats in January 2007.

TheNewWorld wrote:
“Great Presidents work with the opposing party.”

I can see that you have never been in a position of leadership. I guess, in your world, a great president would have ‘worked with’ OBL…

No. Great leaders do not obey the opposition. They listen to their ideas, use them if they are worth using, and ignore them when they are not.

Obama has adopted Republican ideas that were good. The DREAM Act for example, and Romneycare. But lets be honest here – how many useful ideas have Republicans contributed in the past four years?

When Republicans are being stupid – which is practically all the time – they (rightly) get ignored, and it is not being a ‘great president’ to treat stupid ideas as if it has value. If you Republicans want to be taken seriously, you will just have to start behaving responsibly.

TheNewWorld wrote:
“Once again, I am not a Republican, I am a Libertarian.”

So it it just an amazing coincidence that you always oppose Obama and support Republicans?

You are a Republican, you just don’t want to admit it. You think posing as some sort of independent gives you more credibility. You are not the first Republican to try that trick.

TheNewWorld wrote:
“You exemplify what is wrong with America. It is blind partisan cheerleading”

It is not partisan to be able to spot the factual errors, logical holes, and lousy reasoning that characterises the Republican party. It is, however, very partisan of you to pretend they don’t exist.

Your assertion that GWB had a Democrat Congress in 2006 is an example of those factual errors, so is your assertion that Obama had total control for his first two years. Your idea that a great leader always ‘works with’ the opposition no matter how stupid their ideas is an example of lousy reasoning.

It is you, by perpetuating factual errors and poor reasoning, that is being partisan, and *that* is what is wrong with America – faith based, ideological, arguments that have no basis on fact.

Dec 16, 2012 3:18am EST  --  Report as abuse
cocostar wrote:

I don’t mean to deter your attention from the republican parties refusal to end their ridiculous tax cuts for the rich but I would like to show you what the real problem is.
Oct. trade deficits were right around 42.2 BILLION dollars. Average that over the whole year and you have 506 BILLION 400 MILLION dollars per year.
Can you imagine how many jobs and how much revenue would be generated from 506,400,000,000 dollars?
Could an under educated, hard working , 55 hour week UNION, working class tax payer explain to the population of America that our EDUCATED, smiling face, sweet talking, incumbent, elected congress is completely unethical and worthless to the needs and necessities of the country because they are greedy conflicts of interest that have voted their selves set for life with excellent retirement and medical plans for life for their entire families.
How would you like to have 6 children all with the best medical in the world and benefits, perks and clout that would send them straight to the top?
Who is responsible for a lack of opportunity in America?
Why does my fishing rod I don’t have time to use costing me a hundred dollars made in China “without the reel” at Walmart? Why does a nylon, camo tshirt made in Indonesia sold at dicks cost me 90$.
Who is responsible for young men and men with a lack of opportunity and future being humiliated and stripped of their pride loosing their minds and taking vengeance on the population and the people?
The average deficit was the worst ever under the last administration. Somebody is getting extremely rich and doesn’t like or care one bit about this country. Those somebodies are controlling our government from the outside and the inside.
Write or call your congressman and tell him to end the most favored trade nation idea and cut 50% of all trade and more if necessary and generate some revenue for America instead of freeloading special interest elite lowlifes!

Dec 16, 2012 10:34am EST  --  Report as abuse
This discussion is now closed. We welcome comments on our articles for a limited period after their publication.