With "fiscal cliff" deadline nearing, parties still at odds

Comments (43)
TheUSofA wrote:

The only question is, how much more exactly are the wealthiest members of our country going to wring out from this deal?

Nov 26, 2012 3:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
BioStudies wrote:

It’s absolutely amazing to me that the dems refuse to address tax loopholes. It’s well known that these loopholes are the main reason corperations and the extremely wealthy can out compete the common man. It doesn’t matter how high you raise taxes, if you leave the loopholes in place. The top 30 US based corporations paid exactly 0 dollars in tax last year. Part of that has to do with corporations keeping money they made in other areas of the world outside of the US to avoid taxes but part of that has to do with the fact that they have so many loopholes for the money they make INSIDE the US that they end up paying NOTHING.

I fear that the only thing the dems will want to do is to pull a ca prop 39 on the entire US industry. That wouldn’t help things it would just make all our corps move to CANADA.

Nov 26, 2012 3:49pm EST  --  Report as abuse
usagadfly wrote:

Here we go !! Over the edge.

This is the only way the rich will ever pay more taxes and the only way that the military will be cut back enough to stop the new wars being planned in Washington. They will jack up taxes and cut benefits for the middle class whether we go over the edge or not. The middle class has nothing to lose!

Nov 26, 2012 3:50pm EST  --  Report as abuse
beofaction wrote:

The top 5% of wage earners already pay almost 60% of all income taxes. They are paying more than their “fair share”. The next highest 20% of earners pay 27% of all income taxes, which leaves the remaining 75% of earners paying only 13% of all income taxes. By the way, each one of those segments earn about a third of all income, so you see, only the top 5% are paying a share of the taxes that’s greater than the share of what they collectively earn from the system.

As you can see, the Democrats are once again spewing propaganda, not facts, about the “rich not paying their fair share” to keep their class warfare message alive(impossible without the compliant media. Anything to keep from reducing their budget-destroying entitlement programs. Yet, amazingly, polls show the Republicans would get most of the blame? Wow! Then again, I must remind myself of the results of the election and remember the average person lives in this world of propaganda: My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts!

Nov 26, 2012 4:01pm EST  --  Report as abuse
hariknaidu wrote:

Finally for GOP elections have no consequence what-so-ever.

Therefore the best outcome is end Bush Taxes end of year.

Nov 26, 2012 4:24pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

“With fiscal cliff deadline nearing, parties still at odds.”

Good. No resolution means it kicks in automatically in January. Bush tax cuts expire, federal spending cuts across the board. Let it happen. It’s exactly what we need.

Nov 26, 2012 4:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LanceCole wrote:

Absolutely no one seems to understand, that you can’t tax the ‘rich’ on their income, when they work for $1 a year, and that all their new cars, perks, benefits and stocks are sheltered beneath ‘corporate holdings’. Those people, like Warren Buffett, are actually living ‘in poverty’ on paper. You won’t punish them, what you are going to do is to tax and punish the working middle class, the ranch owners and farmers of America. Keep on believing what they are spewing, until it breaks the United States. Just remember, you deserve what you demanded.

Nov 26, 2012 4:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Saywhaaaaa wrote:

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2010, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 35.4% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 53.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 89%, leaving only 11% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). So in clarifying the wealthy have a much larger piece of the pie. Last I saw there weren’t a lot of $250,000/year citizens dying for this country in a war that hasn’t been paid for but greatly benefited no bid contracts to Halliburton and well connected corporations. I don’t see this class warfare people are decrying. The country is in dire straits and unchecked spending as well as revenue increases need to bring the nation to where we need to be. Reagan raised taxes several times to levels that were higher than they are today and the capital gains tax has never been so low and used so deceptively which is one of the ways Romney gets around taxes. That is one of the things Stockman and Bartlett (both Reagan administration) differ with today Republicans. There is such a thing as too much taxes but there is also something as too little. According to FoxNews the most educated states all voted for Obama and the least educated populated states (with the exception of Nevada)all voted for Romney.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/10/15/americas-best-and-worst-educated-states/

Nov 26, 2012 4:57pm EST  --  Report as abuse
USAPragmatist wrote:

If the GOP will not talk about restoring fairness to our tax system, then why should the Dems talk about spending cuts. Obama has already offered a package back in Summer 2011 that was about a 4:1 ratio of spending cuts to revenue increases, but Boehner could not get his caucus in line. Why would we expect him to be able to now? After all it has become fairly obvious that the right has ignored the results of the election we just had.

Nov 26, 2012 4:58pm EST  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

When Boehner took over as majority leader, in his acceptance he stated: “The people’s priorities will be our priorities”. Yet with polls like the most recent CNN poll showing 2/3rds want a BALANCED approach with tax cuts AND tax increases… Boehner and his gang continue to play the obstructionist game and ignore the promises they made on election night.

Nov 26, 2012 4:59pm EST  --  Report as abuse
bemore2day wrote:

Some believe that Obama does not have a plan to deal with the deficit. If this is a president without a plan, then he sure is doing well on reducing the deficit. (read below) If the deficit can be reduced without the Republicans cooperation, just imagine what could be done if the parties worked together!

Monday Oct 15th: “Late Friday afternoon, the Treasury Department published the official report on the U.S. budget deficit for the most recent fiscal year: $1.089 trillion. While that’s obviously still a very large budget shortfall, the deficit is $200 billion smaller than it was last year, and is nearly $300 billion smaller than when President Obama took office.

To add a little historical context to this, over the last four decades, only two presidents have reduced the deficit this much, this quickly: Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.”

Headline “U.S. Deficit Shrinking At Fastest Pace Since WWII, Before Fiscal Cliff”

Read More At IBD: http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/112012-634082-federal-deficit-falling-fastest-since-world-war-ii.htm#ixzz2DMVBo6Zz

Nov 26, 2012 5:05pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

It’s not a cliff. It’s a diet. Let it happen. Congress is scrambling to figure out a way to eat 7 cheeseburgers a day and not be a lard-ass. Well you can’t. It doesn’t matter how you write it up on paper.

So let the diet begin. Fiscal cliff = fiscal cleanse.

Nov 26, 2012 5:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse
brotherkenny4 wrote:

We can only hope that no resolution is found and we go over the “fiscal cliff”. I think it’s the only way we will get both cuts and increased revenue, and cuts that are fair and don’t target specific hates of either parties.

beofaction, who is your owner? The top five percent also own 65% of everything. Which is about the percentage they pay in taxes. On the other hand the top 1% own 42% of everything, so the next 4% only own 23% of everything. Very soon, 1% will own more than half of everything. You’ll be okay, because it’s obvious you will do what it takes to make the Lords happy. Everyone else will get less.

Nov 26, 2012 5:11pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ThomasShaf wrote:

The country will function fine long enough for the Republicans to soothe their constituants that depend upon government contracts. The country will not collapse if taxes are raised on the rich and a bill on raising the national debt without raising taxes on the very rich is vetoed by the President. I am confident both parties will get together after a veto to save their own Congressional elected positions. I predict a rout of mid term congressmen who supported holding back our economic recovery in an attempt to put a Republican in the White House.

Nov 26, 2012 5:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
herb440 wrote:

I am a middle class citizen making around 70K annually. If the republicans will not go the balanced approach route, let us go over the fiscal cliff and let the taxes go up for everyone prior to Bush tax cut. I will pay extra and so will the rich. If that is the only way. Thanks

Nov 26, 2012 5:14pm EST  --  Report as abuse
CMEBARK wrote:

beofaction wrote:” My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts!” If ignorance is bliss, you’re close to sainthood. You are a typical Kochpublican. Trickle down economics does not work…it never has and never will. Why don’t you go to the Tax Policy Center, a non-partisan think tank, and get educated.

Nov 26, 2012 5:24pm EST  --  Report as abuse
sidevalve56 wrote:

I’m wondering when the people of the us are going to realize that the 2 party system of washington is broken. The fact that these two parties can get citizens to support or not support a particualr party because of what they have or haven’t done to the country is amazing. Both parties have COLLECTIVLEY (that means together)brought our country to the state it is in…not one or the other…both parties. While individuals argue on what their party has or hasn’t done and blame the other individuals party, both parties get an out or a reprieve from blame. all they have to say is “well its the other party’s policies that got us here.” BS Until people realize this and call out the dems and repubs on their shennaigans, they will contiinue to move blame onto one another acting like they have dome no wrong. Sit down and think about it a little…washington as a whole has failed the people that it was suppose to serve. Notice i used the word “serve” ’cause that was the original intent of their office, to serve the people.

Nov 26, 2012 5:26pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

The GOP has already lost on this. They either come to the table and have to break ties with Grover Norquist, or they obstruct and the Bush tax cuts expire anyway in January. Either way, the Bush tax cuts ARE going away in a month. The GOP has been cornered by a community organizer, while they were yammering on about birth certificates. In all fairness to the GOP, Obama is a very shrewd community Organizer. Didn’t even have to raise his voice. I am glad to have him on my team.

Nov 26, 2012 5:48pm EST  --  Report as abuse
beancube2101 wrote:

It is time to implement some awards system to whistle blowers against those Banker/political party insider rings. Just put 0.01% of our national GDP into these info age whistle blower awards, we can sink those behind the scene financial predators like anchors into the deep sea around the world and save huge amount of capital resources of our country. The Obama re-election victory is not a real solution; we, Americans, should establish these kinds of high tech approach for him and for the defense of the future of our democracy. We don’t have a real Wall St reform so far, tsunami size crises can be rigged by those insiders in political parties in Washington and Wall St any time black mailing our democracy and economy. We must organize it with our modern technologies and send appropriate representatives among us to Washington using the 2014 election. Mass media are corporate tycoons controlled, we need to bypass them using our modern technologies. American women need to rise up for us big time with it.

Nov 26, 2012 5:49pm EST  --  Report as abuse
crod526 wrote:

Stop the BS. No businessman ever adds jobs when there s no demand for their products,no matter how much you lower their tax bills. The wealthy in ths country should pay more in taxes plain and simple and if those idiots keep throwing this country off the fiscal cliff to protect those at the top income bracket they will be responsible for continuing to destroy the middle class in the US.

Nov 26, 2012 5:53pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Butch_from_PA wrote:

All blind rats rounding around bumping into each other. We still have 2 previous wars and a third long bloody war with Iran on the plates to pay for.

When someone uses 95% of their income for food and shelter. The 5% goes a long ways for a better life. When someone spends .003% of their income on food and shelter that 99.007% goes a long ways to invest in foreign tax shelters for retirement and escape from the tax man.

These are not Americans – these are pure and simple cut throat business folks who have the luxury to live anywhere in the world with their wealth. They do not want a better America, they want a more dominated and subdued America – low wages and low job security.

Repubs answer to the lobby man. They will fight tooth and nail and cry like stuck pigs till they get what the lobbyists want….. or no payout for them.

Nov 26, 2012 5:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

As I’ve been saying for a long time now, Republicans have lost all respect for democracy. For them it’s no more than a hindrance, an obstacle in the pathway to one-party authoritarian rule. They don’t give any substantive arguments for not raising taxes on the wealthy. They just insist that they’re not going to do it. But it’s what a majority of the American people want, and expect. They’ve come to represent the biggest threat to the USA, and the world. I think the American people are really growing sick and tired of the GOP’s obstructionism.

Nov 26, 2012 6:09pm EST  --  Report as abuse
foiegras wrote:

We are living the myth – the myth that cutting taxes creates jobs, that raising taxes will undermine small businesses (like hedge funds), that the Republican party is really representing blue collar workers in Alabama and not big corporations in Connecticut (GE) and the super rich in NYC (David Koch), that Social Security is insolvent and that Medicare – the Medicare that I paid into for thirty-five years – is obsolete and should be abolished.

There are consequences for living in a myth – the manufactured debt crisis that led to the downgrading of US sovereign debt, the impasse on the fiscal cliff, the near destruction of the financial infrastructure of the country thanks to the “self-regulation” of the financial services industry and the “oversight” of our financial regulatory authority (the SEC and the CFTC), the time value of money which is nothing now with prices of government bonds continuing to go through the roof and yields going to Hell.

Has anybody noticed that their world is crumbling around them and that the law of cause and effect has been repealed?

Nov 26, 2012 6:16pm EST  --  Report as abuse
usagadfly wrote:

“Individual Income Tax” accounts for 42% of Federal revenues and “Payroll Taxes” account for 40%.

Both of these taxes are Federal taxes on income. A difference is that Payroll Taxes are, themselves, taxed as “income” again by the “Individual Income Tax”. So 40% of Federal revenues come from an income stream which is taxed twice. The rich pay only the single “Individual Income Tax”, unless they have wage income which is quite rare, while workers have the privilege of paying BOTH taxes on the same income.

This “confusion” is generally intentionally promoted by fraudsters who would never agree to a single Federal tax on all income, to be called, provisionally and honestly, Federal “Income Tax”. Such a solution would finish this canard. And would help reveal exactly who bears the burden of paying for Government.

Nov 26, 2012 6:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

This would be a good time for Congress to talk tariffs as a source of direct revenue for the United States. Tariffs on imported goods are the original way that America generated its revenue. That lasted for over 150 years. Income taxes are more recent. As tariffs fell out of favor among international businessmen, guess what had to take their place.

Re-start the tariffs.

Nov 26, 2012 6:42pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

beancube2101 (and anyone else interested in ending corruption in our government), I highly recommend the following lecture by Lawrence Lessig:
http://www.scoop.it/t/coffee-party-conservatives/p/3470299808/the-problem-with-money-in-politics-lawrence-lessig-harvard-law?hash=bd91e80a-ce09-4d3c-9fde-d8761f066b59

Nov 26, 2012 6:49pm EST  --  Report as abuse
GSH10 wrote:

We bailed out the banks, make them pay. Add a minimum corprate tax so companies like GE don;t get away with zero or near zero taxes, but don;t raise taxes on the people, regardless of how much they make.

Nov 26, 2012 6:53pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bagehot wrote:

If Obama offered the end of double taxation on corporate income in exchange for a higher top rate (test 50, settle around 45-48), he might get somewhere. By treating every corporation like an S corp., the reporting burden would lighten, overseas income would come home and Obama gets his bona fides back on the Street. Win-win.

Nov 26, 2012 7:00pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Bagehot-

That or you could just require that any publicly traded corporation in an American market (NYSE, NASDAQ, etc.) pays taxes in America. It’s not that hard to tell who an American corporation is. Companies file with those markets, requesting the status. Any company on the NYSE or NASDAQ that fails to pay U.S. taxes…. loses their place on the market as well as their articles of incorporation for the U.S.

That’s the way we used to do it.

Nov 26, 2012 7:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
kevin2ia wrote:

Of course the can gets kicked down the road. No member, on either side of the aisle, has the guts or integrity to do “the right thing.” All the “savings” will be in the out years and never materializes. All the tax increases will be immediate and will never be reduced or eliminated. Drive the sob off the cliff and let’s see what happens. It would appear we are all due for a big dose of reality from the “collective” choices we have made.

Nov 26, 2012 7:36pm EST  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

“The top 5% of wage earners already pay almost 60% of all income taxes. They are paying more than their “fair share”.”
=====
Sorry… but any discussion of how much any particular segment of the population pays in taxes is meaningless without the corresponding discussion of what percentage of all income that same segment earns… and Conservatives NEVER want to talk about that when they offer the above statistic.

The reality is that 5% that payed 60% of all income taxes ALSO EARNED OVER 50% OF ALL INCOME. So yes… there’s a bit of progression in the tax code… but it’s not the dire scenario Conservatives like to paint by giving you HALF the data. There’s nothing inherently unfair about those earning over half of all income paying a little more than half of all taxes…

Nov 26, 2012 8:46pm EST  --  Report as abuse
kmh333 wrote:

We need to cut spending

Nov 26, 2012 9:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
kmh333 wrote:

We need to slowly reduce the size of government. Government has gotten way too big with a lot of waste. With the increased size of government comes more money and more power. Washington is a country within itself. The people there feel entitled to our money and the power that comes with it. We need to cut spending a lot.

Nov 26, 2012 10:08pm EST  --  Report as abuse
WJL wrote:

This is all about fat American pigs squealing noisily to defend their turf and vested interests from other Americans. It is quite a spectacle

Nov 26, 2012 10:33pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Donnatello wrote:

It is a big misdirection by the Right to claim that the rich pay 60% of the taxes. In case you failed math, that is how percentages work. 15% (the capital gains tax rate) of a million dollars is a helluva lot more than 35% of $100,000. Also, the last time I checked the poor and middle class kind of need their money in order to buy things like food and housing.

Nov 26, 2012 10:47pm EST  --  Report as abuse
foiegras wrote:

Who is running the government, our elected representatives or Grover Norquist (Jack Abramoff’s buddy)? Half the people in America can’t answer that question.

Nov 26, 2012 10:49pm EST  --  Report as abuse
fromthecenter wrote:

let it happen… All we have been hearing is if we dont cut the deficit the world is going to end. Now we have a plan to cut the deficit and the world is going to end. GESH!

Nov 26, 2012 11:29pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Burns0011 wrote:

The problem with closing those ‘loopholes’ is that there are very powerful lobbies that want those loopholes to stay open. Neither Democrats nor Republicans will act against those lobbies. It’s much easier to target individual income tax breaks than it is to close business tax loopholes. The result; individuals get bent over without lube and the businesses get away with bending them over.

The numbers don’t add up. Even closing all the tax breaks for individuals will not generate enough income to shrink the debt and cover the budget deficit. There is no political will to bite the bullet and cut out the business tax breaks. So the only thing left is to do the smart thing and raise tax rates a few percentage points. We’re not talking about jacking up the tax rates on the top tier to 90%, like it was in the 1970′s, but four. percentage. points.

Nov 27, 2012 12:20am EST  --  Report as abuse
WallaBingBang wrote:

Dog and pony show

Nov 27, 2012 12:26am EST  --  Report as abuse
xyz2055 wrote:

WallaBingBang..absolutely. The House Republicans aren’t negotiating in good faith. On Aug 1, 2012 they already passed a bill to extend the Bush era tax cuts for everyone for another year.

Nov 27, 2012 12:53am EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

Donnatello: You are so right. It’s such an idiotic talking point that is totally meaningless, as mb56 correctly points out. (Take note, beofaction.) When you see that statement you immediately know you’re dealing with someone who can’t think for themselves. Using that logic, the worst, most unfair thing we could do to the wealthy is give them 100% of all the wealth in the US because then they’d have to pay 100% of all taxes. Likewise, we’d be doing the rich a huge favor if we took all of their money because then they wouldn’t have to pay ANY taxes. We’d have to pay it all. That’s a problem I only wish I had.

Even Warren Buffett sees the logic in raising taxes on the rich, enough to prompt him to write an opinion editorial for the New York Times. Republicans should listen to Mr. Buffett. He knows a little bit about how the free market works, and he knows raising taxes on the rich won’t hurt investment. That’s another canard that the right likes to float, just like “The top 5% of wage earners already pay almost 60% of all income taxes. They are paying more than their “fair share”.”

Nov 27, 2012 1:00am EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

The bottom line is that we only have ourselves to blame for what goes on, or doesn’t go on, in Washington. After all, this is a representative democracy. The problem is that the American people don’t make enough effort to keep on top of what’s going on. We’re too gullible. And in far too many cases we choose to be gullible and/or uninformed. Sometimes the truth forces people to have to choose between what they know in their hearts to be right and their political party, and people don’t like to make that choice. Too often they’d rather have a beer, turn on the tv and forget about politics. I know a lot of people like that. But people like that don’t deserve a free USA, which is why we’re losing this country.

We’ve let corporations annex our government. This isn’t just an abstract talking point. There’s a specific history that has occurred, organizing on the part of business organizations for the express purpose of getting our government to do what they want, and getting us to let them. I would encourage everyone to read Who Stole the American Dream by Hedrick Smith, one of the best living journalists around. This is the kind of stuff we need to be educating ourselves on, because they’re betting we won’t.

Nov 27, 2012 1:18am EST  --  Report as abuse
jjfender wrote:

Eric Cantor’s statement that “his concern was not for billionaires but for ‘a small-business man or woman in Midlothian, Virginia’ who might not invest money and hire people” is a crock. Real small business owners would actually hire more workers because only profit is taxed not the money that is spent on workers.

Nov 27, 2012 5:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
This discussion is now closed. We welcome comments on our articles for a limited period after their publication.