House votes to expand visas for high-tech workers

There is no credible or even reasonable argument for allowing immigrants to come to the US, just because they want to. I have to think, that the time for such generous and benevolent thinking passed, when the Government ran out of free land for homesteading.

Those given Visas today, should be providing real and obvious value to this country, and not contribute to the over-abundance of welfare recipients.

Lamar Smith: “..the high-tech visa program would help the United States retain U.S.-trained workers to spur innovation and job creation..”

No it doesn’t.

It’s just the traditional legal channel of some cheap labor to replace the qualified locals via unfair competition.

It’s a four-way job drain – offshoring, legal immigrant authorizations, guest worker type programs and illegals.

Hope it doesn’t get past the senate and the president is ready with the veto-pen.

This is another scam from the Cheap Labor Lobby.
At least this time, they are proposing to give the
immigrants the right to change jobs, unlike
Quasi-Slavery “Guest Worker Programs”.

The bottom line is that this is corporate welfare:
The purpose of this program is to replace US citizens
with cheap imported workers.

Yeah. Let’s petpetuate the myth that there is a shortage of Americans qualified to do these jobs. Why do the idiots in Washington persist in helping Microsoft and Silicon Valley pay sub-market wages?

Along with any such visa program ought to be a mandatory false claim clause, enabling any American citizen to have access to documents filed requesting such a visa based on the “unavailability” of US citizens for such positions, and to claim all wages, benefits and other payments of any kind to such am immigrant if the citizen can prove the application was fraudulent or negligent in attempting to find qualified American applicants.

Most H1B visa granted in the past 20 years have been clearly fraudulent. But only the Justice Department has been able to discipline companies for these false claims. The legislation should allow any US citizen to file suit against the entity requesting a visa on the alleged lack of qualified US persons. We can no longer trust the Federal Government to be fair or to act in our interest. If there is no wrongdoing, there will be no loss.

This at least brings the jobs to the U.S. as opposed to having all high-end programming and hardware design be sent overseas to India and China. When you pay a worker here, they buy their groceries here and they pay their taxes here. I see no threat from this program, since it is selective and limited.

This is just a new way to import slave labor.

If these companies were real American companies, they would find a way to train American workers to do the jobs.

That is if there really was a shortage of qualified workers which I find hard to believe.

This whole thing is a SHAM. As an unemployed technology worker in Seattle, WA, I can tell you that there are MANY advanced-degree Americans looking for work (myself included) — THERE IS NO SHORTAGE! This isn’t about a faux shortage, this is about Microsoft, Google, Apple and Amazon wanting to depress salaries and benefits.

Yes, we need qualified STEM workers with graduate degrees.
Yes, we need more native U.S. STEM graduates.
YES, the current programs are largely structured to provide companies with CHEAP LABOR that holds down salaries for AMERICAN STEM workers. (Sorry my caps are not bold and underlined). We have an absurdly low number of college students taking STEM majors and too high an attrition rate of STEM worked departing for real estate, Wall Street, etc. for more money with less work. U.S. STEM salaries seem high to foreigners, but are extremely low compared to most jobs in the U.S. for the level of talent and education involved.

More STEM visas under the present rules will simply make things worse. Let’s do two things:
1) Charge companies a very stiff fee for using visas for foreign tech workers (maybe 50% of the going salary weight) to eliminate the cheap labor aspect, yet allow companies to fill real needs.
2) Let’s provide full federal scholarships for every STEM major at the junior level or higher maintaining a high GPA at a fully accredited institution. The level of work for a STEM major at the advanced undergraduate or graduate level exceeds other majors by such a wide margin that it makes no sense trying to fit them into the same financial aid packages offered to non-STEM majors.

With 18 years in IT under my belt the only problem I have with this is that I can’t understand the majority of Asians while on the phone with them to India. Why do I want to bring that communication barrier into the next office? There should be a requirement that they got their education and experience at a reputable level and can speak English fluently. No farci or urdu allowed.

This is common sense immigration reform that had support in Congress during Obama’s first term. He squashed it because he wanted “comprehensive” immigration reform. Well, here’s his chance.

Make a move, Obama. You were re-elected, now lead. Pressure your cronies in the Senate to pass this, and then make it law. Or are you going to obstruct immigration reform all over again? Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good. Fix this problem. You can do it.

@mott You are right on the money. I’ve seen this in action for 10 years. The corporations say they need these people to do work that no American can do. Really? Does anyone in this country believe that we can’t find a qualified accountant, engineer or computer programmer? What they are doing is, they have shipped so many of these jobs away to the BRIC but they have found that they still need some for face to face work with American clients. So, they hire these h1b visa immigrants because there is a cap on how much they can pay them. Of course the republicans would consider this immigration reform. At least the ones that come here to take our jobs are spending some of their money here. I guess that is something for all us uneducated, unqualified Americans to take solace in.

Immigration reform?

Yes, immigration reform is needed in limiting these immigration authorizations that are creating increased unemployment for locals and putting combined burden on social program spend by both legal and illegals that have figured out how best to (ab)use the system.

Groceries and taxes?

It’s bad logic to bring them to buy groceries or pay taxes, as they and their family displace the local qualified and know very well how to (ab)use the social system.

It sounds as though the right-wing are scared of educated foreigners.

First, if Americans want those jobs, they have two options. Be better at doing the job, or do it cheaper. There is a word for this: “competition”. Republicans claim to believe in market competition, so why are they expecting a nanny state to shield them from it?

Second, why shouldn’t employers be free to choose the best person for the job? It is obvious now that Republicans would prefer the government to be dictating who employers can employ. Their preference for big government is showing again.

Having pointed out the the right-wing hypocrisy, I hope this dies in Senate. It is a waste of time because, like so many right-wing bills, it is just theatre, fixing a problem that doesn’t exist. Foreign graduates from US universities already get an extension to give them time to find a job if they want one. If they are not working in the US, it is because they don’t want to. It is not because they can’t.

It is also too narrow. It focusses only on the so-called STEM subjects, which are actually ‘people who could design military hardware’ but the GOP daren’t say that, meaning than non-STEM graduates – the creative ones – will return to their own countries, leaving the USA even further behind in many areas.

Hooray! Even more foreign invaders to steal even more of our remaining good high paying jobs meanwhile the American worker will just have to settle for a part job at WalMart so we can celebrate the “benefits” of multiculturalism and diversity. Thank you US politicians for putting the issues that are really important to the American people first, like how do we allow millions more foreigners into our country ever year! It’s time for the American people to rise up and take their country back from foreign powers and their supporters.

@CountryPride

Have you ever asked yourself *why* American employers prefer foreigners for those high-paying jobs?

Since there is such a terrible “shortage” of American born advanced degree holders in STEM fields, why then the entire burden of importing non-taxpaying foreigners to the USA for training in such fields should be borne by the companies hiring such people, rather than the bottom 90% of citizens who really DO pay most of the taxes in this country. If the shortage is accurate, why then these companies will be glad to pay the cost.

This whole program is based on lies and deceptions. There is no shortage of American born STEM workers holding advanced degrees from leading American universities. There has been no such shortage for over 20 years. It simply steals the future from our children at our expense for the benefit of large corporations and foreigners, and makes ordinary citizens pay for it. This is typical of what is wrong, wrong, wrong with this country’s Government system. Corporations are emphatically NOT people. They have become political monsters as bad as anything the Soviets ever dreamed up. They must be abolished and replaced with a structure that does not so freely rule this country.

Anyone who knows any history at all, and who has read about Fascism as a political structure, must recognize that what we have here is Fascist. Far, far from “democracy” and even farther from freedom or liberty. The only freedom these people practice is predation, like wolves. Other countries, civilized countries, do not allow these things to go on with their citizens. Time to not only stop this particular theft of money from the taxpayers, but to abolish or tax away the US class C corporation and any other business structure that is allowed to bribe politicians openly and corruptly.

Kill the monsters.

usagadfly wrote:
“There is no shortage of American born STEM workers holding advanced degrees from leading American universities.”

Because you say so? Why should I believe you?

It is irrelevant anyway. US employers are free choose who they employ, and they choose foreigners. It seems that you right-wingers want to take away that freedom.

Why do US employers choose foreigners? Either you are wrong and there is a shortage, or foreigners offer a better deal to their employers. Either way, the answer is for Americans to be more competitive and give employers good reasons to employ them.

@Abdulafiah:

First, there is no shortage. If there is, then let free, individual US citizens prove it in a court of law and recover the money stolen from the taxpayer by the companies involved. Those companies have nothing to fear, since they are not habitual liars. They are NOT free to hire who they please, but need permission to hire foreigners. The term is “Work Permit”. They are invalid if issued fraudulently.

The American people are not a global charity. I possess such a degree from a top 20 engineering school and have been discriminated against by foreigners educated with my tax money who only employ their fellow nationals. And that does not include Americans. You can pack your bags and go home! Go tax your own people for your education and get your hands out of my pockets.

Second, lies do not help make foreigners welcome in this country. You label all Americans as “right wingers”. The right wing is critical of the largest corporations in the USA? Critical of the Republican Party, which is promoting these frauds? What a joke. Are you paid by Microsoft?

Funny that Obama gets the minority vote by making promises, but has no inclination to solve any part of the immigration problem. I hope all immigration is solved before the next election so it is off the table for votes. How could he possible have any problem with this bill as it is a positive step toward immigration and democrats are, of course, screaming racism. His way of stopping bills is alway his all or none approach.

@Mott

Are you for Amnesty for the illegals? I find it quite hypocritical and nonsensical that a Democrat would want illegal immigratns, criminals, to be granted citizenship, but when it comes to highly skilled educated foreigners, they want them out of the country ASAP.

“Some Democrats argue that the plan unfairly pits lower-skilled immigrants against those with more education in the battle for visas as the new law would eliminate an existing program, often called the green card lottery, that provides visas to 55,000 people from countries with lower rates of immigration.”

I call this common sense. Of course Democrats are opposed to it.

@NoTransparancy

Democrats oppose the Republican bill because it doesn’t solve anything. Graduates already get an extension to give them time to find a job in the US if they want one. There is no problem of graduates anting to work in the US but not being able to. Republicans, as so often, are trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

Really, this is an effort by the republicans to look like they care. It’s almost a laughable attempt. I have a idea, how about a Comprehensive immigration reform bill…..for everyone…. Stop discriminating! When will the Republicans learn their lesson?

Why are they doing this when there is a labor glut in the chemical field? Plenty of PhDs are teaching high school for christsakes.

usagadfly wrote:
“First, there is no shortage.”

borisjimbo wrote:
“Why are they doing this when there is a labor glut in the chemical field?”

I see that the right-wing line on this is that the country is knee deep in American post-grads, and the whole thing is (yet another) conspiracy (theory) between evil Obama and evil businesses, all in league to stop Americans getting jobs, because…. well, who knows…

Perhaps one of you could actually prove the premise for this latest GOP conspiracy theory? I doubt it…

…becsuse from here (http://marginalrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/EducationTabarrok.png)

we find that in 2010 around 38,000 students graduated in computer science. From here (http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2009/11/art5full.pdf) we find that over the next ten years, the USA is expected to need another 785,700 of them. Can you do the maths?

Once again, 10 minutes of basic fact-checking destroys the right-wing argument.

there is no skilled worker shortage, just US born workers who don’t want to make 40k a year. just another program brought to you by the corporate propaganda machine. the same one that told everyone what a great thing one way trade with china would be

The “New World Order” can only take place when the USA is brought down to Third World Status! The middle class has to be destroyed to facilitate this process. Wake up America before it’s too late!

Sensibility. I don’t see this current bill as a threat since those workers will be living in our economy. But I assume that when you refer to Obama obstructing Immigration Reform, you are referring to GW’s 2007 Immigration Act. Which in fact originated in the Senate. You really need to go back at look at the voting on that bill. It was quashed by the Republicans. Not the Democrats. That bill also would have faced stiff opposition from the Republican’s in the House. That bill has absolutely no similarities to this bill. Totally different subject matter. But nice try on rewriting history.

As I said, I was referring to Obama’s first term, not 2007. But that’s beside the point. Now is Obama’s time to stop obstructing and start leading. If he doesn’t pass this immigration reform, let the record show that he’s to blame for stopping it.

What bill on Immigration Reform did Obama veto in his first term?…because as president the only way he could obstruct something is to veto it.

Amnesty for Illegals?

No.

Sensibility…you do of course realize that Presidents don’t “Pass” laws…right? Congress passes laws. They present those laws passed by the House and the Senate to the President. He either signs or vetoes them.