Utah teachers get free gun training in response to Newtown shooting

Comments (23)
explorer08 wrote:

I was a public school teacher for eight years before “selling my soul to the corporate world.”

Do not…..I repeat….DO NOT ask school teachers to carry and use guns. It is a travesty of the first order. The average school teacher does NOT….I repeat…does NOT have the wherewithal to use a gun to expertly kill a perp. Some do, most do not. Please, please, please trust me on this one. Instead, hire highly qualified, highly screened, highly trained armed guards to watch over our schools. I have traveled all over South America and know for a fact that this is the best approach.

Dec 27, 2012 10:22pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Snowpine wrote:

Good. If a crazy person has the guts to show up at a school with armed adults, then they will not hurt innocents for long.

Right on, Utah. These tools can be used for good too.

Dec 27, 2012 10:36pm EST  --  Report as abuse
forzapista wrote:

This article demonstrates the inherent problem with the gunnuts in the US. Does anyone seriously believe that instructing a teacher how to use a firearm will have any utility in an attack like the one in Newtown? What about the tactical training necessary? Do any of you nuts realize the amount of tactical training necessary to effectively and safely use a firearm under a high stress situation like Newtown a school no less?
These gunnuts think they just need a gun in their hands and everything will be ok. Do you realize how much tactical training is given in the military and law enforcement?
@Snowpine, have you ever aimed a firearm at anyone and seriously considered pulling the trigger? I bet not.

Dec 27, 2012 10:49pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Sonorama wrote:

@explorer08, can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.

Dec 27, 2012 11:03pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Snowpine wrote:

forzapista

I’m sure you can approach this a little more maturely than getting personal with someone you don’t even know, because of his opinion.

Are you asking me if I could shoot a killer if he were in my daughters school with a gun I do own? Are you asking if I would want my daughters teacher armed if there was a shooter in her school?

Yes, yes I would. I would risk my life for MY child and everyone else’ kid

Dec 27, 2012 11:23pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PapaDisco wrote:

The NRA has argued for decades that the solution to any violent crime is simply more and more guns. This argument has always failed and will continue to fail.

Disarmament has proven successful in many societies around the world. The U.K. being the most obvious example.

Amend the Constitution to remove the Second Amendment. Regulate hunting rifles and outlaw all handguns. America will be a far safer place and our children won’t have to suffer the crossfire.

Dec 27, 2012 11:48pm EST  --  Report as abuse
kiwibird wrote:

The U.S. is lost. The day you arm your teachers and think it is the right response rather than remove weapons from the general population it’s over. To think it wasn’t that long ago that other countries admired the U.S. – that is over – it’s a laughing stock.

Dec 28, 2012 12:05am EST  --  Report as abuse
KarlQuick wrote:

Amen!
How can we expect these devoted teachers to face certain death in a futile effort to rush and knock down a shooter, and thus fail to protect the very children they are CHARGED to protect ????
Solution:
Every school should have two people trained in the use of a simple revolver. The Principle and the School Psychologist are logically in the best position to take on this responsibility. Each should have the gun in a locked box, chained or welded to their desk. The gun should be loaded but protected with a trigger lock. The assigned and trained individuals should have the keys on a chain around their neck at all times. The school system should pay for yearly training, bimonthly practice, along with a small increase in pay for the extra duty assigned to these two.
Similar strategy should be followed in all situations where large numbers of unarmed innocents concentrate: colleges, churches, strip malls, etc.
To do otherwise is insane. There is no way first responders can reach a school or church or conference center fast enough to avoid mass casualties from a deranged shooter. The alternative, armed guards, is ineffective since they stand out like sitting ducks and would be taken out first.
Be rational! …self defense, responsibility for self and neighbors, dictates we take on this limited emergency duty.
What we also need is REAL mental health laws allowing the safe and private pick-up and evaluation for people feared to be a threat. The process must shield the candidate for commitment from publicity and shield the accuser from retribution and publicity.
To pay for serious mental health services, taxes should be levied on violent entertainment: violent games, movies, tv shows, shooting ranges, ammunition, and possibly violent sports. …if it teaches a skill and mental attitude a deranged killer can use, it should be taxed to counter that potential killer with intervention before the crime.

Dec 28, 2012 12:43am EST  --  Report as abuse
KarlQuick wrote:

Amen!
How can we expect these devoted teachers to face certain death in a futile effort to rush and knock down a shooter, and thus fail to protect the very children they are CHARGED to protect ????
Solution:
Every school should have two people trained in the use of a simple revolver. The Principle and the School Psychologist are logically in the best position to take on this responsibility. Each should have the gun in a locked box, chained or welded to their desk. The gun should be loaded but protected with a trigger lock. The assigned and trained individuals should have the keys on a chain around their neck at all times. The school system should pay for yearly training, bimonthly practice, along with a small increase in pay for the extra duty assigned to these two.
Similar strategy should be followed in all situations where large numbers of unarmed innocents concentrate: colleges, churches, strip malls, etc.
To do otherwise is insane. There is no way first responders can reach a school or church or conference center fast enough to avoid mass casualties from a deranged shooter. The alternative, armed guards, is ineffective since they stand out like sitting ducks and would be taken out first.
Be rational! …self defense, responsibility for self and neighbors, dictates we take on this limited emergency duty.
What we also need is REAL mental health laws allowing the safe and private pick-up and evaluation for people feared to be a threat. The process must shield the candidate for commitment from publicity and shield the accuser from retribution and publicity.
To pay for serious mental health services, taxes should be levied on violent entertainment: violent games, movies, tv shows, shooting ranges, ammunition, and possibly violent sports. …if it teaches a skill and mental attitude a deranged killer can use, it should be taxed to counter that potential killer with intervention before the crime.

Dec 28, 2012 12:43am EST  --  Report as abuse
matthewslyman wrote:

Removal of the second amendment isn’t necessary! I thought the Second Amendment related to the right of “well regulated militia” to bear arms that in the time of the “Founding Fathers”, were just muskets and single-shot rifles? How has this trans-mutated into a right for individuals to carry, concealed; reliable, accurate & comparatively light-weight repeating fire-arms that are essentially asymmetric? Modern weapons are inherently undemocratic, unlike the fire-arms and swords of old, which basically gave you military force roughly proportional to the number of men you could muster to bear arms (needless to say, this is no longer the case, and this rule-of-thumb has become less and less true over the years with advancing weapons technology). What are we to say, that if an individual American citizen can cook up a chemical, nuclear or biological weapon in their back yard or garage, then they should have a right to it? That the intelligence to create or acquire such weapons guarantees the responsibility to handle that power correctly?

Unfortunately, 2nd Amendment the right of militias to bear arms was NOT well regulated. The history of the United States includes many dark chapters where American citizens were denied their constitutional rights, and in some cases for political reasons (as in the case of the Mormons), attacked and cast out of their entire cities by rapacious bands of marauding militias from neighboring cities, for their property to be misappropriated and for them and their families to be turned out of their homes in the dead of winter and left by the Federal Government to die. IN THIS CONTEXT, it’s perhaps no wonder that Utah is so much in favor of individual gun rights.

Other dark chapters in US history include white supremacists and the “black panthers”.

Surely we can do better than this?

Dec 28, 2012 12:47am EST  --  Report as abuse
elfenstar wrote:

1st off, if a gunman entered your classroom, he/she already is ready and the teacher is not. There won’t be time to pull out a locked up weapon and shoot because now YOU, the teacher, are the 1st target. What good did it do you? None, you are already dead.

Dec 28, 2012 12:52am EST  --  Report as abuse
KarlQuick wrote:

kiwibird — The US is lost because we ceased to teach or practice responsibility in our society. Our politicians lie and cheat continually, our big businessmen own politicians, our teachers are bought and paid for by their union bosses who offer them pay and benefits for doing a very poor job … we are outlawed to criticize, berate, or even object to an offensive student, employee, or anyone else, yet we are told WE must forgive the mentally ill for killing our children … after all, “they didn’t mean it”, it was an accident of their genes, or they upbringing, or the shots they got as a child, or the chemicals in the food, or…. anything BUT personal responsibility.

The comments in this forum about not being able to trust a teacher with a gun… but we can trust them with out children’s physical, moral, intellectual development …for years… insane!

Yes, it would be great to have trained armed guards willing to take a bullet for our children …but we don’t even have properly trained and disciplined teachers!

I don’t think every teacher should be armed. I think the teachers responsibility is to lock the classroom and lead the children away from danger.

I do think it is the responsibility of the Principle and one or two others in the staff to be trained and armed to respond to a shooter in the halls of the school. In the Sandy Hook disaster, the shooter shot his way through the locked door and ultimately could have shot his way through every classroom door. The Principle and School Psychologist were killed (as I understand it) rushing the shooter in the hall, as they were taught to do by the “experts”… it is better than cowering in the hall and waiting for the bullets to hit. If they had been able to shoot while charging the shooter, one or both would be alive today and probably half the kids too.

Lost? …the US is very nearly lost because we’ve surrendered too much moral responsibility to a corrupt and immoral political structure. Both parties are at fault, along with a whole lot of lazy and selfish and misguided voters.

Will we find ourselves? …probably not until we go through a cycle of disciplining ourselves as happened in the ’30′s and ’40′s as a result of the Great Depression and WW-II. I would hope we could have a revival of the virtues that made us great through sheer force of rational thought, but for too many generation now, the majority of us have not been taught to be rational.

Nature has a way of bring balance back to the kingdom. Unfortunately, it usually involves a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth. We do it to ourselves …we’re our own worse enemy… if we won’t learn, we end up having to be taught the hard way.

Dec 28, 2012 1:03am EST  --  Report as abuse
randburg100 wrote:

Oh dear! What a sad day for the US – when it sees fit to arm TEACHERS – then they’re on a slope to oblivion!

Not too many years hence we’ll see machine gun pods on the front gates of US schools, barbed wire surrounds – all in the name of their precious NRA & a 200 year old line of text that has been DELIBERATELY misinterpreted by the fire arms industry!

If I was living in yank-land….I’d get out while I still could…..it won’t be long before the hamburger curtain drops around US borders…and scenes from films like Escape from New York become reality. You may laugh – but it IS coming!

Dec 28, 2012 3:02am EST  --  Report as abuse
stanman63 wrote:

Finally a rational response to school shootings. Gun laws don’t stop criminals from obtaining guns. They only stop law abiding citizens.

Dec 28, 2012 3:16am EST  --  Report as abuse
redmerlot wrote:

Side 1: Wrong:
“If we should ever face a shooter like the one in Connecticut, I’m fully prepared to respond with my firearm,” she said, adding that she planned to buy a weapon soon and take it to work.”

No, you are not. You may be an expert shot and know everything there is to know about that gun. Try that in a hallway or classroom full of screaming, running, panicked children, with a lunatic spraying bullets over your hear, and you’ll quickly realize that all the gun training in the world has not prepared you for this.

Side 2: Wrong:
“We think it makes a lot more sense to prevent a school shooter from getting the gun in the first place,” said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C.”

No it doesn’t. You are not going to prevent anybody from getting anything. We have drug laws, speeding laws, and all sorts of gun control laws. Anybody can get drugs, everybody speeds, and nobody has any trouble getting a gun, even if it’s stolen or illegal to own.

What makes sense is to start at the bottom, square one, with how we educate our children and what we expose them to. Stop turning a blind eye to the 900 lb gorilla in the room: Children are being raised in a coarse, sleazy, nasty cesspool. Crude, violent, sexual TV and video games, very lax discipline, neglectful parents, a prison system which (despite its all-time high population) turns monsters back out on the street every day.
Look at the idiot adults who stampede at Wal-Mart to grab junk for Christmas. How about the recent fight in a California mall food court.
Just look at the news on any given day, and look at the rudeness, the offensive anti-social behavior we see every single day, not just in teens, but in adults young and old.

Behavior, manners, discipline. Unless we fix that, there will be violence and killing. The guns won’t matter.

Dec 28, 2012 4:25am EST  --  Report as abuse
Chronicle236 wrote:

There’s another possibility not mentioned here. Senator Diane Feinstein (D) said something interesting in her response to the comments of the NRA press event. According to Feinstein, one-third of all schools presently employ armed security personnel. It is easy to prove that violent incidents occur in schools. What’s not so easy is to prove how many violent incidents were PREVENTED in schools due to the presence of armed security. Crime is like electricity in that it follows the path of least resistance. The more the resistance, the less crime there is.

@explorer08 – I can somewhat sympathize with your point. However, not all public school teachers feel as you do. I took a gun safety course when I was younger through my local 4H club. The NRA approved course instructor was my high-school biology teacher. And a number of other teachers were gun owners in their private lives.

@forzapista – In answer to your second-sentence question, yes – I seriously believe it. Further, your use of the word “gunnuts” is more appropriate to the killers in the most recent attacks than it is to people who would act as the protectors of children. In the world of law-abiding citizens, I fear there are more “anti-gun nuts” – people who would rather sit back and do nothing than actively participate in their self-defense and the defense of others. I find that sad.

Dec 28, 2012 5:49am EST  --  Report as abuse
MetalHead8 wrote:

Do anyone that says Thinks we are safer without guns, please look at this

www.gunssavelives.net

Then you too can keep up with how recent guns are used to safe lives.

BTW Senator Diane Fiinstein (D) has Broken her Oath to support and defend the Consitiution by attacking the 2nd amendment for all Americans and trying ban the sale of over 100 weapons including pistols and bolt action rifles, as well as making it impossible to tranfer or sell your current weapons. Im signing the petition to impeach her, you should do the same.

Dec 28, 2012 11:11am EST  --  Report as abuse
AndrewBinga wrote:

Some instruction, some time on the range and these teachers will do fine. Gunman have to come through a door in order to get in a classroom so the teachers will have a pretty easy shot. There will be no innocents standing right behind an active shooter so the teachers won’t have to worry about someone else catching a stray bullet.

Dec 28, 2012 5:20pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AndrewBinga wrote:

I have had teachers who were either active PD or retired PD along with Viet Nam war vets.

Dec 28, 2012 5:22pm EST  --  Report as abuse
AndrewBinga wrote:

” Try that in a hallway or classroom full of screaming, running, panicked children, with a lunatic spraying bullets over your hear”

Most of the killings happen by the shooter coming into the classroom or library and HUNTING people. If you wait for them to come in the door you have an easy shot.

Only a fool would think that you have endless crowds of people running through the hall in the direction of where shots are coming from. Get a grip.

Look at the Columbine video and tell us about your fictional crowds in the hall again.

Dec 28, 2012 5:27pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Jim_Dandy wrote:

Hey I had one week of tactical training with a Glock 19 at a FLETC and then granted to carry both on and off the job, we then followed up with range training once a quarter.

Dec 29, 2012 8:40am EST  --  Report as abuse
fromthecenter wrote:

Where does this stop? What about playgrounds, beaches, strip malls, parks? The NRA solution to arming the entire nation is crazy. We tried that…IT was called the wild west for a reason. We must find a way to curtail this madness.

Dec 29, 2012 5:02pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Chronicle236 wrote:

@fromthecenter – The right to bear arms is a belief that goes beyond the NRA. And anyone who thinks only members support it is only fooling themselves. The solution to this “madness” (as you call it) is not necessarily more guns. But until the solution presents itself, citizens should be entitled to protect themselves.

Part of the solution is to end the crazy idea that potentially violent mentally ill people should be treated on an outpatient basis. The most recent massacre-style incidents are cases in point since they all ended with the suicide of the shooter – and suicidal people are mentally ill. And part of the solution is to end the crazy idea that fewer law-enforcement dollars spent, especially during a time of increasing violent crime, can do the job of protecting us.

I suspect that if more potentially violent mentally ill persons were caught earlier and confined to an inpatient setting – and if citizens were willing to properly fund a police force at 21st Century levels, a lot of these violent incidents would simply not happen. THAT SITUATION would convince potential gun buyers to not buy.

I don’t see THAT situation coming anytime soon. I think society will continue its coddling of the mentally ill and continue to underfund their police departments. That is the only reason why, next month, I’ll be buying my first handgun for self-defense purposes – and why I’ll take training to ensure I can use and maintain it properly.

Jan 01, 2013 6:43pm EST  --  Report as abuse
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