Obama pushes Congress on immigration, split emerges

Comments (41)
MetalHead8 wrote:

With a bunch of jobs about to be lost is the gun industry, can our economy handle 11 millions more (now legal) workers?

Jan 29, 2013 9:50am EST  --  Report as abuse
Sensibility wrote:

“The minute it becomes Obama’s plan, the Republicans kick automatically into opposition,” said Bill Schneider, a political scientist at George Mason University in Virginia. “The White House knows to back off for now.”

Indeed. The less he wades into this debate (or any), the better. Let the adults in the room handle this, Obama.

Jan 29, 2013 10:08am EST  --  Report as abuse
americanguy wrote:

Once the ILLEGALS living and working in the US are allowed to become citizens, they should have to file an income tax return for each year they worked in the US. Then the IRS should charge them penalties on taxes owed, and make them pay or garnish their wages or put them in prison. Then they should have to pay FICA/SS for all the years they worked since they will eventually get the same benefits as other Americans.
We are not talking about legal immigrants who register and pay all those taxes, we are talking about ILLEGAL invaders who get paid in cash and don’t pay into the system.
You think the Social Security/Medicare system is bankrupt now, wait until 11 million people who only paid into the system a few years, flood the system and start collecting benefits.

Jan 29, 2013 10:40am EST  --  Report as abuse
AdamSmith wrote:

Immigration is destroying the American middle class.

Nature has not yet rescinded the law of supply and demand.

The plain fact is that immigration into any modern country has two serious, lethal effects on the native-born citizens:

1. Immigration sharply drives down wage rates.
2. Immigration sharply drives up housing costs (rent rates).

Thus employers and landlords benefit from immigration.

Thus common workers are greatly harmed by immigration.

Today in America, apartment rental rates are skyrocketing. I’ve lived in the same apartment building about 8 years. When I moved in it was mostly native-born Americans.

I’ve watched it change. Today it is about 60% foreign-born people. There is now a waiting list to move in. More and more foreigners every day.

The rental rates go up, and up and up. The large company that owns it greatly benefits from immigration, and of course gives great political support for further immigration.

But the native-born Americans, working class, already in financial straits, see their rents go up and up and up. Often they go from an apartment to being homeless.

The immigrants, coming from poverty, squalor and violent crime in Latin America, end up causing the native-born American working class to fall into squalor and destitution in America.

Immigration is a giant crime against the American working class, while the wealthy reap more profits, and then attend the same country club as the senators sponsoring this bill.

Jan 29, 2013 10:49am EST  --  Report as abuse
AlexJones wrote:

Keep repeating this number “11 million.” Why? Is there a CAP on this?

Jan 29, 2013 11:18am EST  --  Report as abuse
AlexJones wrote:

The contradictions are a study in Orwellian doublethink. You will hear them bloviate on about the importance of “education.” Must not be important if dumping large populations of mostly uneducated people in the country. Either it matters or it doesn’t.

Jan 29, 2013 11:23am EST  --  Report as abuse
M.C.McBride wrote:

I always enjoy media industrial comples stereotyping a particular group of voters. Here is some fun data from Gallup:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/152072/Americans-Immigration-Concerns-Linger.aspx

It looks like the majority’s wishes are being ignored by both sides of the aisle.

Jan 29, 2013 12:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Speaker2 wrote:

@americanguy

Most undocumented workers pay federal and state taxes, as they apply for jobs and give a social security number. Which means they pay in social security but often times are never able to collect.

Not sure where you come up with the paid in cash? Employers want to write off employee wages. So they write checks, take out taxes etc.

I use to be in the commercial roofing business and hired a lot of Hispanics and I am sure a percentage of them were un-documented workers, but they had a drivers license and social security card for the I-5 forms employers are required to keep. No we didn’t check to see if the ID was valid or the social security card.

Everyone got paid the same wages, often at union level on government projects, they paid in taxes, social security and had company paid health insurance. This is typical in the construction business.

Recently, I moved from California, so yea, I went by Lowe’s picked up several people to pack and load the U-hauls, and yes I paid them cash. Had these guys had a green card, I am sure they would be working elsewhere, paying in like everyone else.

Jan 29, 2013 12:25pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Dragos111 wrote:

I work with several Asian, Indian, Phillipeno, and other foreign nationals. These folks have worked very hard WITHIN the legal system to get their green cards, work visas, etc. These are the people for whom we should be making it easier to come over here. We need to attract the best of the best, those who will add to the sytem, not take from it.

Jan 29, 2013 12:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Ona357 wrote:

Don’t come talking this smack in Arizona where 365,000 were caught trying crossing the border.

Jan 29, 2013 1:57pm EST  --  Report as abuse
MetalHead8 wrote:

@Speaker2, where do you live were these illigal workers give out the social secruity numbers?
I lived in CT my whole life, and i couldnt tell you a single instance of an illigal doing that, that ALL get paid in cash. at least here anyways.

Jan 29, 2013 2:09pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bunker555 wrote:

Amnesty and citizenship for all is the right thing to do. May take a few years, but the Federal and Payroll taxes paid would eliminate the deficit and put Social Security on a firm footing.

Jan 29, 2013 3:17pm EST  --  Report as abuse
bunnylover wrote:

anyone who came to this country who has committed a felony or defrauded this country out of benefits they were not entitled to should not be allowed to remain in this country. people who truly came here to have work and live the american dream should have a path to citizenship but they should not receive amnesty. they bypassed everyone who is waiting to come to this country legally and they should have to pay a minimum of 5 to 10 thousand dollars. this is similar to the amount paid to be brought across the border illegally. this should not be an amnesty program to reward people.

Jan 29, 2013 3:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
KDupre wrote:

Is this “UNLIMITED” immigration? I’ve read the Senate proposal and there are no limits on immigration mentioned. This country is generous and accepting of immigrants but allowing unlimited immigration would be very bad for the country!

Jan 29, 2013 3:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
elpaso wrote:

Make all employers who did not deduct SS and match those funds now pay plus interest what they owe to the Federal Government. Making immigrants pay back taxes should include what employers owe. As a matter of fact, throw those guilty employers in jail for for violating
SS laws.

Jan 29, 2013 3:57pm EST  --  Report as abuse
usa.wi.vet.4q wrote:

I agree the criminal employers are next. If we give this amnesty to criminals they need to provide data on who employed them so we can figure out the extent of all the crime here!!! Washington is unable to make an unbiased decision here. We are sick of your bad deals Washington!!

Jan 29, 2013 4:04pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PseudoTurtle wrote:

Notice the picture of Obama at the top of the article.

Notice he is holding out the wrong finger to the American people on immigration reform.

Jan 29, 2013 4:20pm EST  --  Report as abuse
americanguy wrote:

@ Speaker2

Illegals cannot get a social security number without a work permit but they usually don’t risk getting work permits, because they don’t want to get caught.
They make SS numbers up, or steal them from Americans, and use fake documents. That is proved.
The people you speak of must have had temporary work permits.
From a NYT article:
“Though most people think of identity theft as a financial crime, one of the most common forms in the United States involves illegal immigrants using fraudulent Social Security numbers and documents to conduct their daily lives.”
I think you are referring to people with work visas and they are not illegal. Illegal means non compliance with US immigration laws, which is why they get deported if caught.
No, illegals do not pay taxes, except sales tax.

Jan 29, 2013 4:34pm EST  --  Report as abuse
yubamary wrote:

@speaker2, Many years ago in California I worked in a CPA firm and we filed the tax forms for many of our clients. Many farmers listed the names and numbers of their employees from whom they withheld taxes, but when we listed them many had the same SS numbers but different names. I feel the employers should be fined since they have hired the people and somehow don’t check the numbers. I don’t know who ultimately collected the benefits on the numbers used. But with all the computer tech available now somehow the Govt should know what is going on. At that time the Braserow (not sure of spelling) was still in effect. That program when used properly worked well why they did away with it I have no idea. I do believe at the time it was to give the work to Welfare recepients go figure.

Jan 29, 2013 4:35pm EST  --  Report as abuse
BioStudies wrote:

The Democratic president said that if Congress is unable to act in a timely fashion, he will propose immigration legislation of his own and “insist that they vote on it right away.”

You mean to say, the Democrat president I believe.

Jan 29, 2013 5:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Speaker2 wrote:

@Americanguy

Of course non-citizens cannot get a social security card and they buy fake cards. However as an employer, all I have to do is take at face value the documents they provide are valid. I don’t have to verify the documents and have no interest in having to do so.

My point here is simple. Most of the 11 million undocumented workers work at jobs, they pay taxes, they pay in Social Security. In the case of Social Security because the SS number is not valid, they are unable to collect in the future. Basically the SS system is getting these paid in funds for free without having to pay out.

Look, we are not going to deport these people. It would be best to grant them citizenship and move on. So they came in illegal, not all laws are good and many pasted immigration laws were based on racial prejudice and not valid reasons to exclude them.

Jan 29, 2013 5:07pm EST  --  Report as abuse
BioStudies wrote:

I support amnesty if the illegals who get it can’t vote for 25 years. That’s a fair trade for breaking our laws.

Jan 29, 2013 5:26pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bunker555 wrote:

The Tea Pots are paranoid about the new citizens’ votes.

Jan 29, 2013 5:53pm EST  --  Report as abuse
hancle wrote:

He’s still campaigning at taxpayer expense. He could have given this speach from the Oval Office.

Jan 29, 2013 6:20pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Kelsbells wrote:

@BioStudies

The proper name is the Democratic Party. Democrat is a noun and Democratic is the adjective to describe the party. Republicans tend to use Democrat as an adjective (Democrat president) because of the implication that people would then equate Democrats as being more democratic than Republicans. Using that logic, we would all be Republicans because we live in a republic (not a democracy).
It’s kinda silly, but using Democrat as an adjective is an almost tell-tale sign that you are a Republican. Or you listen to talk radio a lot. Or you just like to irritate grammatically-sensitive Democrats.
You can do that in a republic, even if you are not a Republican. : )

Jan 29, 2013 6:22pm EST  --  Report as abuse
KyuuAL wrote:

Unregulated corporate power damages the middle class far far more than illegal immigrants. If anything, the “illegals” provide this country very cheap labor. Want to work the same jobs as them? Then work for less. That’ll make corporations happy.

Jan 29, 2013 6:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Galactus999 wrote:

This whole thing is a terrible idea. NO AMNESTY. NO path to US Citizenship. We need to deport all the illegal aliens in the United States. That is the law. We need Immigration Reform to provide the resources to enforce our laws. Deport all illegal aliens, secure the border and fine anyone who hires an illegal.

Jan 29, 2013 6:32pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Galactus999 wrote:

This whole thing is a terrible idea. NO AMNESTY. NO path to US Citizenship. We need to deport all the illegal aliens in the United States. That is the law. We need Immigration Reform to provide the resources to enforce our laws. Deport all illegal aliens, secure the border and fine anyone who hires an illegal.

Jan 29, 2013 6:32pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ChiHD wrote:

@AdamSmith

Generally I would agree with you in regards to the supply and demand thing but what you said afterwards did not make sense. Certainly as you suggest as the demand for apartment units increase, the supply may decrease (or remain constant) and result in an increase in price. However, even with increasing demand, price will typically not break away from what is supportable within the market. If rents are $1000 per month, even if demand is increasing, it will not go much higher than $1000 a month if the typical renters can only afford $1000 a month. I am bringing this up because you made two points. One being that wages are going down. This means that your typical renter has less money to spend on rent every month. This affects both current citizens and immigrants. And second, you said the imigrants coming in are poor. This means they do not have the money to bid up the rents. Based on what you are saying, I would not think that prices are increasing simply as a result of increasing demand. In fact your claims seem to conflict since a decrease in wages will prevent rents from going up despite demand increases since higher rents are simply unaffordable and unaffordable rent rates result in vacancies.

Jan 29, 2013 7:02pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Harry079 wrote:

Imagine 11 million people taking the oath of citizenship all at once led by the President of the United States.

Gives me goosebumps!

Jan 29, 2013 7:06pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LeavingCali wrote:

You, the illegal immigrant: “I like your house better. I think I’ll just move myself and my family into your house. Just deal with it. I’m seeking a better life.”

Me: “GTFO”

Jan 29, 2013 7:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LeavingCali wrote:

“Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured…but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.” Now add this, “Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens.”

-Ben Stein

Jan 29, 2013 7:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse
IrateNate wrote:

If I hear Obama echo the words “common sense” or “comprehensive” one more time, I think my head will explode. His proposals are nothing but regurgitated left wing nonsense that has failed to muster the votes to pass, for only a Marxist government could possibly see his legislative diarrhea as “sensible”.

Nothing will happen, because our elected officials – both parties – haven’t the political will to do what needs to be done. And that involves sealing our borders so that we know who comes in and who goes out. After we have established this control, then we must notify all who are here illegally and let them know they have a limited amount of time to come forward. After that deadline, all illegals must be deported – without exception.

There is no room in this country for those who refuse to follow our laws. In Obama’s screwed up brain, changing the laws to allow the violators permanent status does nothing but add millions of people to the government payroll, and invites millions more to ignore our laws to come get their “free stuff”.

Jan 29, 2013 7:16pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ChiHD wrote:

@Galactus999

While I am in favor of tightening our borders, a mass deportation would be a terrible idea.

To disclose how much I favor tightening border security, I would like to see a solid steel wall along the entire southern and northern border with motion sensor machine guns with a detection radius of 100m that will automatically blast anything within range.

However, despite this, I still think mass deportation would be a bad idea. This is because there is such a thing as “jobs Americans don’t want.” These jobs are currently filled by illegal immigrants. Your average gardener, construction worker, hired hands from a contractor, farm hand, etc. We will see a massive increase in simple maintenance, service, and food costs if we just get rid of all of them. If you hire gardeners, your fee to them will increase because there aren’t enough Americans willing to do that kind of work for that kind of pay. Your local high schooler that mows lawns for $10 is not available to do the volume of work current gardeners do. The groceries that you buy, which are picked by illegals paid at minimum wage or less will increase if they have to be picked by Americans whom will not work enmass for that type of work for that level of pay. Most Americans do not go to college so they can become a gardener, farmer, construction worker, etc.

These people are here already. As Speaker2 said above, they pay into our payroll taxes and they wont see any benefit from it. They play a important role in our economy so perhaps they deserve a chance. But like I said, I am not in favor of illegal immigration, so an effort to curve the inflow should be made as well. A mass purge however, would have terrible effects.

Jan 29, 2013 7:17pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Speaker2 wrote:

@IrateNate,

Over most of US history the borders have been open, people come and go, people just enter the country and announce their desire to become a citizen. Only within the past 100-years or so have we seen immigration laws and most were passed into law because of racial prejudice (Chinese and Mexicans) or perceived economic fears (Mexican Irish, Germans & Polish).

As far as laws go, they come and go as times and policies change. So there is nothing wrong with Congress making changes , especially if that is what the people of the US want.

Two things going against you, one a majority of Americans have no problem with the proposed immigration changes. Two, Obama won the election, a majority of voting citizens elected him into office based on the fact we like his policies and not the Republican and Tea Party policies.

Stop listening to Fox Entertainment or Rush’s and beck’s fantasy world and listen to the real news by real news companies and you might see most Americans are not in disagreement with Obama.

Jan 29, 2013 7:37pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bubba311 wrote:

Why do I already get the impression that the President’s first priority is picking another fight with his political opposition, with immigration reform taking a back seat to that goal?

Jan 29, 2013 7:42pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LeavingCali wrote:

@ChiHD: Construction jobs have NEVER been a job no one else is willing to take.
In fact, the illegals who work construction undermine the legal workers pay. I’ve seen MANY construction and landscaping companies go out of business because they can’t compete with companies that hire illegal workers, pay less, don’t pay worker comp premiums, and pay under the table (i.e. NO TAXES).

Illegal immigrants work those jobs AND the mainstream jobs. In fact, you see them more and more in middle-income jobs. This makes an already overflowing job pool unsustainable. Try finding a middle-income job in LA that doesn’t require a bilingual applicant. The unemployed LEGAL citizens are being neglected for the sake of the illegals and their vote.

It’s not about the illegal immigrant; it’s about the sustainability of a country teetering on economic collapse.

Jan 29, 2013 7:45pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LeavingCali wrote:

I’m having a helluva time finding a job where there isn’t a bilingual requirement.

Yeah…this is all going to help.

Jan 29, 2013 7:48pm EST  --  Report as abuse
LeavingCali wrote:

@Speaker2 —-> no country could sustain the open borders you reference. Racial prejudice must be rampant, according to your logic, because EVERY COUNTRY has a right and a duty to regulate the flow of immigration (i.e. Mexico’s southern border).

Next, you keep referencing your partisanship and that of others. However, when you argue a point from a place of party politics, your point is moot and your argument loses credibility. It simply sounds childish and as arbitrary as the red team vs. the blue team.

Jan 29, 2013 8:06pm EST  --  Report as abuse
americanguy wrote:

Does ANYONE really think, that if 11 million blonde haired blue eyed Germans came to the US illegally through Canada, that the same people here against Mexican illegals would say:
“Oh, but that’s ok, they are German! Give them citizenship and everything else”
If 11 million Americans were in Mexico illegally, does anyone think the Mexicans would say “welcome citizens, come and get jobs and pay no taxes!”
Even Canada would not allow 11 million Americans into their country illegally, and then give them citizenship, AND CANADA IS MOSTLY PURE WHITE.
Give the race card garbage a rest because it is pure bull manure, and just another diversion from the real issue of invaders.
By the way, “Mexican” or “Hispanic” is NOT a distinct race, just another load of manure to protect them. Mexicans are mixed race White (European) and Native American.
Races:
White
African
Asian
Native American
I like Mexicans a lot, they are fine people and work hard, but we need another solution to this problem, not the biggest most sought after reward by most people in the world (US citizenship) for invading our country and breaking our laws.
This is all about the hispanic vote and members of Congress will do anything for a vote, Obama can do nothing without Congress so it is just his opinion.

Jan 29, 2013 8:38pm EST  --  Report as abuse
ChiHD wrote:

@LeavingCali

Ok, lets assume there are no such thing as jobs Americans don’t want. Do you think our society can handle the shock of a huge price increase for many of our goods/services? Increased pay, workers comp, benefits, etc, are all expenses that will increase the cost of construction, landscaping, groceries, etc. Taken as a whole, its a pretty hefty increase. In the current economy, many people are barely making by with prices as they are, how would they be able to handle a doubling or tripling of prices for even basic necessities like groceries? Many of these jobs are on the lower side of the income scale. You say there are some middle income jobs being taken, but I will need some examples of that since I can’t think of any off the top of my head. In general though, this means that the average income for middle income workers will not increase, we will only get an increase on the average rate of lower income which does not address the issue of how the majority of people will be able to afford higher costs for general goods/services. Illegal immigration is a problem, but it is a problem that needs to be resolved gradually overtime, not all at once. We as a society have become reliant on their services for the lower cost goods/services they provide.
Your bilingual comments have nothing to do with illegal immigration. It has more to do with globalization and immigration in general. I assume you live in Califoria (me too bro!) since you referenced LA, but as you know So. Cal. is a hodge podge of different ethnicity both legal and illegal. Not all first generation legal immigrants speak perfect english nor do they all prefer to speak english at all. Many are simply unable to express themselves fully in english so they prefer to speak in their native language. It is simply an advantage to be multi-lingual when living in a multi-cultural society because the people you will do business with may prefer to speak a different language.

Jan 30, 2013 11:00am EST  --  Report as abuse
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