U.S. Navy was warned that Washington shooter 'heard voices'

Comments (174)
ballsy wrote:

He just might have taken Joe Bidens advice afterall….

Sep 16, 2013 9:14pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MudCow wrote:

How could armed strangers get into military compound ? Could it happan again inside Pentagon or WH ? Security too lax for ex-staff and those allowed to hold guns should first undergo character clearance.

Sep 16, 2013 11:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
KyraO wrote:

Tragic. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

Sep 16, 2013 12:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Yamayoko wrote:

Supposedly the most secured place is sometimes the most dangerous.

Sep 17, 2013 1:00am EDT  --  Report as abuse
amibovvered wrote:

Miles from the Capitol?

Sep 17, 2013 1:23am EDT  --  Report as abuse
xyz2055 wrote:

redboy..in the District of Columbia..assault rifles (like the one this shooter was carrying) are banned, to own a firearm a permit is required involving a background check, on-line training and an exam. Those laws apply to residents and non-resident in the District. Pass all the laws you want…those that would do arm to others will not follow them.

Sep 17, 2013 2:16am EDT  --  Report as abuse

do you people not realize that this man had ptsd? As well this took place in a gun free zone? How do liberals even get out of bed in the morning? 99% of you people are too stupid to remember to inhale after exhaling.

Sep 17, 2013 2:44am EDT  --  Report as abuse
satori23 wrote:

Why are the bits about ”active 9/11 rescue” and subsequent trauma absent from this article?

Sep 17, 2013 3:21am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Why didnt Obama adopt – they might even be from the same Kenya kraal

Sep 17, 2013 3:26am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BiteRight wrote:

It’s not the first time a former member of the disciplined military force committed a “retaliatory hate crime” toward his colleagues. He did this just because his superiors gave a damn to the psycho impact of the sacked individual. Regret the truma is replied in kind.

Sep 17, 2013 3:33am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ShiroiKarasu wrote:

He picked a great place to murder people- there are very strict firearm laws in DC, which means psychos like him are free to go on shooting sprees until the police arrive and corner him.

Sep 17, 2013 4:34am EDT  --  Report as abuse

exactly correct ShiroiKarasu

Sep 17, 2013 5:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BLooey wrote:

Where is Obama now on “If I had a son”?

Sep 17, 2013 6:35am EDT  --  Report as abuse
kommando7 wrote:

Just a wee bit of workplace violence similar to Ft. Hood killings. There was no call for new gun control measures after that one. Only
thing called for was not to label it an act of terrorism and not to
let it negatively impact the sacrosanct diversity of the US military.

Sep 17, 2013 6:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Hooyalukinat wrote:

An AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. It is a semi-automatic rifle, that’s it. It is not “Military Style” it closely resembles a M-16 or M-4, however those have burst and automatic capablitiy. An AR-15 functions no differently than a handgun. This is merely a rifle that looks too aggressive for you.

Sep 17, 2013 7:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
steve789 wrote:

Hilary: 12 men are dead!!! What difference does it make by knowing the the motive??

Sep 17, 2013 7:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Sp60000 wrote:

Let’s not forget, just like the last attack in California, Washington DC has some of the most repressive gun control laws in the country.

In fact you could easily say that gun control was to blame for the high body count here, as it has been elsewhere.

Once again, a killer targeted a ‘gun free zone’, a place where even the military personnel were not allowed to carry a defensive firearm.

Until the police (good guys with guns) arrived and were able to ‘take down’ the killer, people died.

Any sane country would recognize the deterrent value of having good guys with guns already present, but the ‘gun free zones’ laws on the book, pushed through by the gun control lobby in the 90′s, makes that impossible today.

We need to talk about gun control… mainly how to get rid of the stupid and dangerous laws it’s pushed down our throat.

Sep 17, 2013 7:14am EDT  --  Report as abuse

@redboy – He stole most of the weapons directly from the guards at the facility. Civilians do not have “automatic weapons”.

Sep 17, 2013 7:31am EDT  --  Report as abuse
covington.13 wrote:

And this all happened in a city with very restrictive gun control laws. So much for their effectiveness!

Sep 17, 2013 7:39am EDT  --  Report as abuse
doug942 wrote:

Our government Should change their outlook on gun control and report how many peoples lives were saved or prevented because of citizens being armed. Why try to scare the masses? They should also Have no gun free zones. Teach handgun safety and proper gun use thru the boy scouts and police recognition days.

Sep 17, 2013 7:46am EDT  --  Report as abuse
doug942 wrote:

Redboy: the killer had a shotgun, a pistol and a rifle. none were automatic firing. The pistol he took away from a dead to injured guard or policeman. Was the killer an NRA member?

Sep 17, 2013 7:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Gun free zones work! Praise the gun control gods!

Sep 17, 2013 8:05am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mycotype wrote:

As long as the brain dead are allowed to comment the hardware will be condemned, reason will be ignored and the intelligence of the rest will be insulted. There are some instinctively correct attitudes represented here, and too many others who won’t acknowledge that imperfection in human conduct must be punished or modified according to the severity of the infraction. The tools used to harm are infinitely varied and beyond control. Chipping away at the rights of the righteous works only for fools seeking a fools paradise.

Sep 17, 2013 8:37am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Hey redboy,

Did you know that automatic weapons by civilians have accounted for TWO deaths over the past 80 years? So much for your knee-jerk reaction post!

Sep 17, 2013 8:40am EDT  --  Report as abuse
crewjobs wrote:

The shooter was armed with only a shotgun as seen in the surveillance tapes. The other weapons were taken from the bodies of guards after he killed them.

Sep 17, 2013 8:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DLinz wrote:

I’m not clear about something here. Was this one “For Trayvon” yet, or not? Maybe just give it time I guess.

Sep 17, 2013 8:58am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Ok US Military/Natl Security complex (this is from a US taxpayer btw) WTF is going on with your recruitment/retention standards?!! Snowden/The Arab Psychiatrist Major/I’m sure there’s a few we don’t know about – Wake the hell up! You’ve got a problem! Do you realize how many extremely well qualified non-psychopath job candidates are out in the private sector who would love to replace these flakes that you seem to bent on employing??! I googled this FLAKE’s name right after they released his name only to see his mugshot listing a firearms offense in 2011. WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE. I think I now understand why Obama ducked this Syrian fiasco.

Sep 17, 2013 9:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
JoryM wrote:

Statistically virtually every mass shooting has occurred in a “gun free” zone. Homicidal maniacs are obviously choosing gun free zones, and I’m sure any terrorist group with any sense has caught onto this too. Citizen’s rights to protect themselves is being suppressed by an elected group of cult leaders looking for any opportunity to stir their over idealistic cult devotees to add some donations to their campaign pot.

Sep 17, 2013 9:25am EDT  --  Report as abuse
RalphOnReuter wrote:

I worked in a Federal facility when Richardson was Secretary of Energy. At the time I complained that in spite of locking up our secrets there was nothing that would keep a fellow employee from walking in with guns. That concern was ignored because there IS NO WAY to stop that short of a strip search each morning for everyone. Half the work day would be spent getting to work! The only other answer is to back away from the government’s gun-phobia and allow the people to defend themselves. This would have stopped 911 and Ft Hood. Alas, this will never happen though.

Sep 17, 2013 9:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ONTIME wrote:

The government spends years collecting data on military personnel but it makes you wonder why if they are not going to use this info properly. This man had a secret clearance and a history of gun abuse and was mentally disturbed under treatment and it was dismissed, over looked, missed whatever but it opened a can of worms for the nutz wanting gun control. They are again trying to lay this off, not to government stupidity ans ineptitude but as being the fault of sane legal gun owners and reality is it is the gun control nutz who are the criminals…..

Sep 17, 2013 9:39am EDT  --  Report as abuse
emjones wrote:

Check with the US army career promotion board that made a Major out of Capt. Nidal Malik Hasan. They will know how it is done.

Sep 17, 2013 9:40am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Maybe he read Bill Ayers book?

Sep 17, 2013 9:59am EDT  --  Report as abuse
MikeyLikesIt wrote:


Another psychopathic gun-crazed Obama voter. Get it right.

Or have you not noticed that every recent mass shooter has been a liberal democrat?

And yes I’m taking a leap that this guy is an o-bot, but then 95% of black voters were, so it’s not too big a leap.

Sep 17, 2013 10:04am EDT  --  Report as abuse

While I appreciate the sacrifices the vast majority of GOOD people in our military make everyday, I’m afraid their service has been tainted thru our military/NSA complex becoming a make work program for the grossly unqualified. Get your act together soon please.

A little focus wouldn’t hurt either.

Sep 17, 2013 10:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Texas2 wrote:

This article says he was armed with a double barrelled shotgun. Several other newsbits say it was a Remington 870, which is a pump. Also it says he had an AR15. Other sources are saying he got the AR15 from a victim. Wonder which ones are correct?

Sep 17, 2013 10:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Missourimule wrote:

Our security clearance, nationwide, seems to ba a joke. We’ve got what’s-his-name Nadal that killed all those people at Fort Hood, Edward Snowden who was getting paid $200,000 a year as a private contractor, while he was stealing secrets from the NSA, this guy at the DC Naval Yards, and who-knows who else? Nobody’s checking anybody.

Sep 17, 2013 10:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse

The US is the most mentally ill country in the world, maybe even our galaxy cluster. War really damages the psyche, and as long as we continue being a War State, we will continue to face these events.

Sep 17, 2013 10:16am EDT  --  Report as abuse

I seriously doubt this jacka$$ saw any combat so the PTSD is BS.

And I don’t care WHY he did it, just why he was put in a position to be able to do it.

Sep 17, 2013 10:25am EDT  --  Report as abuse
allenY wrote:

Once again slanted reporting. A “military style AR-15″ is a fully automatic weapon. Pull the trigger and the gun continues to fire until the trigger is released or runs out of ammo. The most common AR-15 is a “semi-automatic” weapon. The trigger must be pulled for each shot. Another misconception, AR does NOT indicate “assault rifle”, it is a designation for the original manufacturer “Armalite”. The AR-15 is nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle.

While the despicable act of an obviously deranged man is deplorable, he could have just as easily used a bolt action rifle.

The anti-gun crowd has a motto, don’t let any crisis go to waste! They should focus on prevention of “PEOPLE” with mental problems or a history of violence from obtaining weapons. No one has caused an uproar about our Government providing guns to known criminals, aka “fast and furious” which has resulted in a multitude of killings.

Sep 17, 2013 10:33am EDT  --  Report as abuse

All the gun nuts spouting off about this being a gun-free zone and that is why it happened are just plain delusional and wrong on so many levels. For one, This guy was up high picking people off in an atrium, unless you are trained as a counter sniper, I do not care how armed you are this guy still would have picked you off. Second, it is pretty simple more guns=more gun violence, that is why you are MUCH more likely to be a victim of gun violence if you or a family member owns a gun then if not.

Another observation to take out of this story, like the Newton shooting, is the relatively low number of injured vs killed. This is more evidence that military level ‘assualt’ weapons like the AR-15 should be banned. The killing power of these weapons is off the charts. If you are hit anywhere but an exterior limb, you are probably going to die. If you look at the Ft. Hood shooting, where pistol was used, there where MANY injured as you can get shot in many places by a pistol and live. But because of the high muzzle velocity and the designed behavior of the bullet to tumble and or fragment when hitting a body, military style assault weapons are vicious killing machines that should NEVER be available to the general public. Much less obtained by this guy who had a history of gun violence and PTSD.

Sep 17, 2013 10:35am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Travlnmn41 wrote:

And WHOSE idea was sequestration? Hint: his last name begins with “O.”

Sep 17, 2013 10:45am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Crash866 wrote:

Explain this one away anti gun lovers. Another mentally ill person at the center of a mass shooting. Looks like if security was handled properly this would not have happened. But I guess it’s still the gun’s fault.

Sep 17, 2013 10:49am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Kevin5069 wrote:

Here’s another question… how does a U.S. military veteran with a history of violence and mental problems purchase assult rifles and handguns in the first place.

Maybe it’s time for another look at keeping guns from people who should not own them. Or maybe we wait for another few mass shotings like in the past and just do nothing.

Sep 17, 2013 10:51am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Crash866 wrote:

Will Obama say he looks like him or that it could have been his son or brother?

Sep 17, 2013 10:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Crash866 wrote:

Will Obama draw a parallel on this like he did with Trayvon?

Sep 17, 2013 10:57am EDT  --  Report as abuse
LogicalOne wrote:

Another mental health failure in America. Thank you Ronald Reagan. Thank you Republicans. GO MONEY! GO GREED!

Sep 17, 2013 10:57am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Karen Malina White
So we’ve had another mass shooting by another soldier. And once again, there is a history and evidence of mental illness and PTSD.

Will we talk about our servicemen, mental illness and the many acts of violence by vets from our two undeclared wars?

Sep 17, 2013 10:59am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jameson4Lunch wrote:

Kevin – He was never charged. Had he been, he would have been disqualified from purchasing a firearm, but a failure of law enforcement, not a failure of the law, allowed him to.

As to mental health, if you have doctors reporting their patients to authorities, who in turn restrict their freedom, fewer people with mental issues will actively seek help from the doctors in order to preserve their freedom.

I agree with the sentiment of keeping guns out of the hands of the unstable. There’s just not a very practical approach to doing so.

Sep 17, 2013 11:04am EDT  --  Report as abuse

@Crash, We still do not know how he got this gun, as far as I know. But someone with this guys history, much less anyone, should be able to buy an AR-15. They only people that should have a weapon of this class are SWAT team members and someone in a war zone.

Two simple measures that need a national solution…

1. Re-Institute the ‘Brady Ban’ on weapons like these, worked before no reason can not work again.

2. THOROUGH background checks on ALL purchases.

Neither of these violate the 2nd amendment and both would help. Would either completely stop events like this? no, but would it help to lower chances of something like this in the future? YES!

Sep 17, 2013 11:12am EDT  --  Report as abuse
PrincessHaven wrote:

Hope DOD investigates why they have instructed gate guards not to stop and check Egyptian and Saudi women entering Ft. Knox army base.

Sep 17, 2013 11:31am EDT  --  Report as abuse
elpaso wrote:

You say gun laws don’t work in DC. That is an argument of gun nut fools. You can just go across into Virginia and bring them back. Your argument against having laws doesn’t hold water. Try some other logic.

Sep 17, 2013 11:37am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Interdog wrote:

With 5 million people having a level of security clearance, I’d say the situation is too big to control. So let’s just focus on snooping and groping regular citizens.

Sep 17, 2013 11:37am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Verpoly wrote:

Alexis and Snowden were both former gov. employees but felt disgruntled. They both were hired by subcontractors who only valued their experience but not their state of mind. Snowden took advantage of the job to steal classified docs and Alexis merely wanted to gain access to take revenge. Stupid boss.

Sep 17, 2013 11:38am EDT  --  Report as abuse
jns.esq wrote:

“Authorities question vetting of Washington gunman who killed 12″

Uhhhh… Ya think? Is it possible — just POSSIBLE — that affirmative action might have played a role in this circumstance?

Fear of not hiring/approving “the right applicants” in an anti-business, politically correct society is a powerful motivator.

Sep 17, 2013 11:38am EDT  --  Report as abuse
gcf1965 wrote:

I agree that security seems loose. I am retired USN and rarely have cause to go onto a military installation(none nearby in Charlotte, NC), but over Memorial Day, I was in Jax, FL and to get on base there I flashed a 7 year old retired ID with a picture that looks far different than I look today. I had no pass decal on my vehicle and the guard barely looked at the ID.

Sep 17, 2013 11:42am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

The red flags were there YEARS before – he used a firearm in a fit of anger in Seattle, shooting out the tires at the house next door. Had he been declared mentally unfit to own firearms and his weapons seized at that point, this might not have happened. The NRA needs to get out of the way and let reasonable legislation pass. If you use or brandish a firearm to intimidate others in a non-threatening situation, it should be considered evidence that you are not mentally capable of being responsible with a firearm and your right to own one should be taken away. Their name should be put in a National “No Gun” database on the Internet and anybody sell or loaning them a gun should suffer the same fate.

Sep 17, 2013 11:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
elpaso wrote:

mycotype–more guns in the hands of the mentally disturbed makes more deaths. If you cannot or refuse to accept that logic, then maybe you
had better take a look at yourself instead of calling others out as fools.

Sep 17, 2013 11:56am EDT  --  Report as abuse
elpaso wrote:

and Crash–making your political points shows where you are coming from.

Sep 17, 2013 11:57am EDT  --  Report as abuse
elpaso wrote:

Mikey-you are an idiot.

Sep 17, 2013 12:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
euro-yank wrote:

I know you all love ‘debating’ the gun laws issues, but has no one questioned the disproportionate amount of “contractors” vs. “employees” who seem to be problems?

Sep 17, 2013 12:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
gcf1965 wrote:

@USA “Second, it is pretty simple more guns=more gun violence” If that is the case, then why is the UK and Australia violent crime so high. Your conclusion is not supported by facts. Secondly, “military level ‘assualt’ weapons like the AR-15″ as allen posted, this is a PR lie perpetuated by the leftist and gun-hating media. The AR is not military level by any stretch. It is a “cool” looking semi automatic rifle more similar to a hunting rifle than anything military grade/level. As pointed out by allen, this rifle requires a trigger pull for every round fired, just like grandpa’s old hunting 30-06. “The killing power of these weapons is off the charts” The gun has less to do with the “killing power”, than the type ammo used and the marksmanship of the shooter. It seems you have limited knowledge or exposure to guns, ammo, or shooting so please stop stirring the false misconceptions and fear over guns in general and these AR15s in specific. This AR15 is no more lethal than a policemans 9mm or .45 side arm, aside from rifles being inherently more accurate than pistols.

Sep 17, 2013 12:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

How’d this guy stay employed WITH THE GOV’T?
I know I already asked this question – and a few of you answered the question.

Good lord we’re in trouble.

Sep 17, 2013 12:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
gcf1965 wrote:

Oh, and “tumbling” bullets is total hype and not true. The purpose of a rifled barrel is to spin the round and provide accuracy and predictability, if a round “tumbled” like some uninformed claim, it would render a gun so inaccurate as to be essentially useless as a weapon.

Sep 17, 2013 12:12pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Juan_One wrote:

If all the victims were white then this should be classified as a, “Hate Crime”.

Let’s see what the, ” Agitator in Chief ” has to say or Spin in order to avoid enforcing US Laws?

Sep 17, 2013 12:15pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mycotype wrote:

“more guns=more gun violence” UsaPragmatist2 wrote. Ergo, no guns=no gun violence. Impressive mental exercise. Let’s work on that. Let’s not forget the human modification necessary for a more docile and obedient citizenry. Forget about trimming the murderer population; instead, mandatory frontal lobotomies for the masses. Considering the last 2 presidential election results that process may have already begun.

Sep 17, 2013 12:17pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
VultureTX wrote:

The experience with Charles Whitman and the UT tower says otherwise- once people starting shooting back , he was pinned down and this allowed people to flee, wounded to be evacuated, and finally for two officers to get behind him.

so congrats you don’t know jack about actual usage of firearms but are quite driven to let us all known your ignorance. now the regulars cans speculate how informed you are on other subjects that you routinely post about.

Sep 17, 2013 12:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Brent1023 wrote:

Well, senators, you have spent a year chasing down the culprits within the administration over the Benghazi incident, which left 4 dead.

How much time are you willing to spend on what went wrong here? Twelve servicemen dead because the senate will not allow background checks on purchasers of weapons a mass destruction – assault rifles and other weapons that can kill 12 people in a few minutes.

I hope you remember these 12 dead the next time you vote against the very limited forms of gun control that might have prevented an incident like this.

Or, do 12 deaths mean less than the support of the NRA?

Sep 17, 2013 12:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

I sincerely hope a few pencil pushing dweebs at the Pentagon are clearing their desks out right now.

Sep 17, 2013 12:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
texan303 wrote:

what if this isn’t about guns or video games or politics? What if it is about a frustrate society and actually global? Have you guys ever read about the ‘too many rats in a small area’ experiments? research it – too many animals (people?) clustered together causes a lot of problems even if they have enough food and water. I am NOT suggesting population control but we do need to define the problem in order to correct it. Just a thought.

Sep 17, 2013 12:33pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

@gcf1965 – thanks for destroying USAPrags uninformed post. He knows nothing about guns, and it shows.

Sep 17, 2013 12:40pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jameson4Lunch wrote:

Brent – A hatchet can kill 12 people in a few minutes. A car can kill 12 people in a few minutes. Sorry, you can’t legislate away evil. Also, mass murder incidents, and violent crime in general, have been trending down for over 20 years. Even as the population increases. This isn’t a growing problem that has somehow reared it’s ugly head in the last decade. The only thing that has really changed, other than the reduction in frequency, is the level of news coverage it receives. And it stinks of agenda.

Sep 17, 2013 12:41pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@gcf, Obviously you have ZERO understanding of the performance and the design of the M-16 and it’s ‘civilian’ equivalent, the AR-15. It is by design that on impact with flesh the bullet tumbles and fragments. If it did this on exit of the barrel of course would not be accurate, but it does not. It is a highly accurate and lethal killing machine. As i have said before in today’s information age there is no excuse for ignorance, so here are some links so you can educate yourself…


And this article shows what the bullet can do, and this is a leg wound. Warning there are pretty ugly pictures in this link, but the damage this type of weapon causes…

Sep 17, 2013 12:47pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Ed21 wrote:

Here we go again with another shooting.
Another so called “lone gunman”.
Who gets killed or “suicided”. Dead men tell no tales.
Its reported that he has mental issues.
We will probably find out he was on some fluoride based medication(anti-psychotics).

Anyone here seeing a pattern with this shooter as with so many of the past shootings?
Sandy Hook, Ft. Hood, Aurora and countless others.
The Modus operandi or method of operation are all very similar.

This was yet another “false flag” operation to either divert your attention away from the pressing issues before Congress or another attempt by the Globalists to disarm you. Where is Joe Biden and Dianne Feinstein now? Drawing up more legislation to present to Congress to grab your weapons.

Sep 17, 2013 12:47pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:

Here we go again, blaming a tool for the job. How many people had passed security clearance? From Bin Laden to Timothy McVeigh, from Edward Snowden to Nidal Hasan to Christopher Dorner. Why did they turn their backs against the US government? Creating a system and blaming the individuals is a signature of dysfunction. When can we start focusing on the real problem?

Sep 17, 2013 12:48pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

…and he was totally ‘getting with’ his Thai roommate’s 35-year-old wife…

Sep 17, 2013 12:52pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

This is something that the United Negr0 College Fund could have prevented….

Sep 17, 2013 12:52pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Whatsgoingon wrote:

“Investigators are still trying to determine the shooter’s motive. Alexis had been given clearance to enter the base on the Anacostia River, despite two gun-related brushes with the law and a discharge from the Navy Reserve in 2011 after a series of misconduct issues.” LOL why didn’t they investigate how a man with DUI records got 8 years in the White House?

Sep 17, 2013 12:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@vultureTX, last I checked average citizens are not coordinated together like the police, you know that thing called radios?, and are not able to conduct planned operations like pinning a guy down and coming in behind him. In a civilized society it is not the citizens duty to take out people like this, it is the Police.

Lastly from other posts, I obviously know more about the characteristics of this weapon, the AR-15, then others who are supposedly knowledgeable about it. There is a reason you do not see many injured and high kill rates with a weapons like this, because it was designed to kill efficiently.

Sep 17, 2013 12:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

@gcf and @vulture…don’t bother with USAprag, you might as well try to educate a brick wall.

@USAPrag – Not only are you wrong about the AR-15 itself (it’s the ammunition choice that matters, not the gun), the gunman did not even have one!!!!

Makes your posts look really funny right now.


But don’t let the truth interrupt your fantasies about how this thing unfolded.

Sep 17, 2013 1:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamieJR wrote:

This event is easy to explain. It’s called “Relaxation of Rules and Requirements to abide by the mandate of Affirmative Action”.

Sep 17, 2013 1:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

@USApragmatist – You are unbelievable.
ANY rifle is going to be accurate from short distances with a competent shooter and the right ammo. You know nothing about guns, and are just grabbing random stuff from the internet to support your ill informed opinions.

Let me remind you again that the AR-15 wasn’t used here. Also your ‘high kill rate’ is another made up statistic also – and we all know this. Seriously, I encourage you to talk to some who knows something about guns, visit a gun range, something. You can still have your gun-banning viewpoint, but at least you’ll be knowledgeable.

Sep 17, 2013 1:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
euro-yank wrote:

STOP with the debate about what kind of gun or gun law would or wouldn’t have contributed to this sad situation. What ever happened to the saying that guns don’t kill people, people (using guns) kill people?!

The man’s mental state & the lax security caused this problem, not which kind of gun he used!

Sep 17, 2013 1:29pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

ANY gun which is “semi-automatic”, is going to have about the same rate of fire(45-60 rounds per minute),


The variation (45-60) is caused by some weapons being a bit better than others, but most shooters won’t get much advantage here.

“For a third hybrid class of weapons, common in handguns and rifles, known as a Semi-automatic firearm, the rate of fire is primarily governed by the ability of the operator to actively pull the trigger. No other factors significantly contribute to the rate of fire.”

(again assuming a competent shooter, which none of the gun banners posting here are, obiously).

@USAprag – The wikipedia article is less biased than Piers Morgan and the anti- gun sites that you get “knowledgeable” opinion from.

Sep 17, 2013 1:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Overcast451 wrote:

*@vultureTX, last I checked average citizens are not coordinated together like the police, you know that thing called radios?, and are not able to conduct planned operations like pinning a guy down and coming in behind him. In a civilized society it is not the citizens duty to take out people like this, it is the Police.*

*Cough* 9/11 wasn’t a ‘planned operation’?

And… no guns used. So how would a gun law have stopped that?

I hope it never happens – but IF someone does enter your house with the intent to kill, rape or whatever violent crime – not saying anything about a gun – but are you going to just call the police and shrug saying “it’s their job” – or are you going to take action to stop the situation?

Should we also have this attitude when it comes to a car accident or a natural disaster? Sit and watch while people die because it’s “the job of emergency responders?”

See your ‘civilized society’ concept is the problem – SOME of us are civilized – this clown shooting people; was obviously not ‘civilized’.

Sep 17, 2013 1:33pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamVee wrote:

It’s easy to explain how this happened. It is called incompetence, and it’s increasingly obvious that many of our military services have some severely incompetent leadership.

In this troubled time, when our “guard should be up”, we let a guy with gun charges on his rap sheet and positive indications of mental instability in his past, waltz into a military facility, armed like Seal Team 6.

Please get off your collective asses and get this problem FIXED!

Sep 17, 2013 1:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamVee wrote:

Hey USARealist –

Thank you very much! You’ve “made our case” far better than I could.

Sep 17, 2013 1:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@USARealist and others, I know more about guns then you think, I have shot an AR-15 many times in my life, although just at the range. And I admit it was fun as hell, but I have no problem giving that up for the safety of Americans.

If the AR-15 was not used here, no matter, it still is an extremely deadly weapon that should not be available to the general public. It was, without a doubt, the weapon used to kill 20+ first graders months ago.

With respect to the single shot vs full auto. In most cases single shot is superior, particularly at range. One takes the second to aim and is MUCH more likely to hit a target then just ‘spraying and praying’, particularly at range. Plus one can pull the trigger pretty dam fast and discharge many rounds(all but one of the M-16 type of rifle, which the AR-15 is, in my lifetime where single shot, the one exception being a marine weapon off the back of a carrier at sea(3 shot burst was the best IMO), also got to fire an M-60 then, that was BAD ASS!) in a short period of time, and also the magazine is very easy to change so an experienced user can change to a brand new mag in 5 secs or less. This is not your ‘grandfather’s hunting rifle’, it is a totally different beast and should not be availible to the general public.

Sep 17, 2013 1:39pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@overcast451, to quote you ‘See your ‘civilized society’ concept is the problem – SOME of us are civilized – this clown shooting people; was obviously not ‘civilized’.’ So your solution is to lower all of us to their level?

you also said ‘I hope it never happens – but IF someone does enter your house with the intent to kill, rape or whatever violent crime – not saying anything about a gun – but are you going to just call the police and shrug saying “it’s their job” – or are you going to take action to stop the situation?’ First thing I will do is call 911 and then probably hide where no one can find me, lock myself in the bathroom or something like that. But I, being someone rooted in reality, know the chances of this occurring are MUCH less then being harmed by my own gun if I did own one. After all your chances of being a victim of gun violence are MUCH higher when owning a gun then not owning one.

Sep 17, 2013 1:47pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Dilbert314159 wrote:

How many more names?

Sep 17, 2013 1:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Dave-0 wrote:

He wan’t from Ft Worth, he had only been stationed there.

Sep 17, 2013 1:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jameson4Lunch wrote:

USAPrag – Yes, it was without a doubt the weapon used. The fallacy is that you assume that nearly any other weapon couldn’t be used just as effectively. With just my .22 handgun, I can accurately hit multiple targets and reload with a fresh 10 rd mag within 20 seconds. And that’s at a reasonable target shooting distance (~30yd). The round used, the gun used, none of it is of consequence when your talking about a pathetic fish in a barrel situation that the Newtown shooter perpetrated. He could have done the same, just as quickly, with a baseball bat.

Sep 17, 2013 1:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Ahmen JamVee!

Sep 17, 2013 2:21pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

I understand there is a Thai connection in TX.

Any recent Muslim conversions with our shooter going on as well?

Sep 17, 2013 2:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@Jameson4Lunch, I disagree, with a .22 handgun it is MUCH harder to strike a lethal blow then with an AR-15…

1. a standard .22 is not even close to the power of an AR-15 round, we are talking orders of magnitude here.

2. also a standard .22, unless using banned hollow point ammunition, does not fragment and tumble upon hitting flesh like the standard Ar-15 round.

And no he could not have done the same with a baseball bat, that is just a pathetic argument.

Sep 17, 2013 2:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ghost62 wrote:

Ouch My head is starting to hurt.
1. No AR 15 or AR style rifle was used.
2. Entered with a model 870 shotgun
3. took 2 handguns from guards he shot with the shotgun
4. they hesitated.
5. 2nd amendment
6. why does anyone need a mean looking rifle? see number 5.
7. 2nd Amendment per the supreme court of the U.S. in the case of US vs Miller upholds The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.
8. If you dont want one DONT buy one.

Sep 17, 2013 3:06pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MikeyLikesIt wrote:


Ladies and gentlemen I must refute my earlier post. Apparently the facts can be completely contradicted if someone calls you an idiot.

Well done elpaso! You deserve the ad hominem award for arguments!

Sep 17, 2013 3:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Yes, security should’ve been tighter, BUT even with the best security in the world, IF you ignore repeated warnings and employ mentally unstable people massacres like this will continue. Our military and intelligence community obviously cannot seem to connect dots.

It’s time to restructure our security apparatus, before China & Russia give US a lesson why might not walk away from.

Sep 17, 2013 3:12pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Lemmy wrote:

He had a mental illness – you can’t ask someone about their mental illness because it is not nice.

See what you get when you’re nice?

Hey Biden – how about taking the guns away from the mentally ill – like the last three people who mass murdered normal American Citizens. Here is what it takes – a national mental health database. The FBI keeps track of criminals – why can’t we keep track of mental illness? Is it because it’s too private, or too hot a political topic? Maybe we should ask all those who are dead.

Sep 17, 2013 3:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Lemmy wrote:

He had a mental illness – you can’t ask someone about their mental illness because it is not nice.

See what you get when you’re nice?

Hey Biden – how about taking the guns away from the mentally ill – like the last three people who mass murdered normal American Citizens. Here is what it takes – a national mental health database. The FBI keeps track of criminals – why can’t we keep track of mental illness? Is it because it’s too private, or too hot a political topic? Maybe we should ask all those who are dead.

Sep 17, 2013 3:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@cleansesociety, so there you are showing your bias/hate. FYI most Thais are not Muslim but Buddhist.

Sep 17, 2013 3:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
kd8gis wrote:

I think if you took the guns of the police and other U.S. agencies away you would have a much better chance of reducing the deaths by guns.
Don’t believe that? It worked in England. But gun control as to stopping these kind of events, will never happen, If someone wants to get a gun someone can get a gun.

Sep 17, 2013 3:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
smeagol wrote:

This is unbelievable. In addition to lax security in the Navy Yard, how was he able to obtain weapons through legal channels. So much for the NICS background check. Now we are to understand he was “hearing voices”? All the more reason to approve the sale of a shotgun to this guy. I think we need more background checks like this because they are really doing a lot of good!

Sep 17, 2013 3:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pbgd wrote:

Aside from the obvious moral issue: Why did they wait to let this guy first shoot no less than TWELVE people before somebody finally decided to draw a weapon? — and that in a military place where everybody runs around armed.

Sep 17, 2013 3:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jameson4Lunch wrote:

@USAPrag – At 5-15 ft? No, it’s not. You don’t need ‘power’ or fragmentation. Just a little hole in one of a few key areas and the desire to make that hole.

Also, .22 HPs aren’t banned to my knowledge (I buy and fire them regularly).

I think you underestimate how many effective ways of killing there are in this world. Which is probably a good thing, because you seem like the fearful sort as it is.

Sep 17, 2013 3:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

USAPrag – I questioned even commenting on this thing once I saw the volume of your idiotic comments(once again)lest I become the target of some of them. There happens to be a huge Muslim population in Thailand and I believe they’re still in the midst of a civil war (or just getting over it) between the Muslims and Buddhist. Goolge that shizzy if you don’t believe me. Hell, the Muslims might be winning it. Seriously, you should actually read the news for once instead of writing your immature ubsurd and uninformed comments.

I’ve requested along with others that Reuter block you. I hope they take my advice.

Sep 17, 2013 3:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Vanyak wrote:

If Obama had smarter brother, he’d look like Alexis.

Sep 17, 2013 3:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ThoseWhoServe wrote:

Was the National Agency Check background investigation of Aaron Alexis performed by a federal agency or a contractor? If the background agency check was done by a contractor, was it the same agency that performed the background investigation of Snowden?

Sep 17, 2013 3:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
smeagol wrote:

Hey, I believe I’m beginning to see a pattern here.
1. Nutjob enters a “gun free zone” carrying firearms that he should have not been able to purchase under NICS guidelines.
2. Nutjob starts shooting the unfortunate people there who by obeying the law have no means of defending themselves.
3. Police arrive only minutes later and either kill the nutjob or he takes the cowards way out and kills himself, but not before he can kill a large number of innocent people.
4. Politicians take up the cry for more “gun control” that wouldn’t or didn’t (because of sloppy administration of the law) stop the tragedy in the first place.

I think I have seen this movie.

Sep 17, 2013 3:36pm EDT  --  Report as abuse


Apparently you did not even bother to go to link I showed you, I guess ignorance is bliss right? from the website ‘According to the last census (2000) 94.6% of Thais are Buddhists of the Theravada tradition. Muslims are the second largest religious group in Thailand at 4.6%.[1][2]‘

you will not be the target of my ‘idiotic’, I guess since ignorance is bliss for you shedding reality on ignorance is ‘idiotic’, if you make statements that are rooted in reality. But so far you are failing on that. As I have said many a time my primary goal is to de-bunk the misinformation being spouted by those who are not basing their arguments on reality.

If you cant handle the truth, then by all means please try and block me, even with all the vitriol and mis-truths spoken by the rightie/Obama haters I have yet to mark ONE post as abusive. Because I feel that the more and more those type of people post their drivel there is more and more of a chance of reasonable people seeing just how full of it they are. Plus since i have truth on my side, I do not have to be deceitful and try and get an opposing view squashed by ‘reporting’ it, I would rather fight them in the open with the truth.

Sep 17, 2013 3:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@vanyak, seriously dude? Obama has more intelligence in his little finger then you have in your whole body, and comments like you just made prove that.

Sep 17, 2013 3:59pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mjftw wrote:

The worst part maybe, is that the VA here in Dallas is under scrutiny at present for not providing adequate veteran support. This whole thing would be lot less messy if it had been prevented at the first spark.

Sep 17, 2013 4:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
smeagol wrote:

@USAPrag Just a few corrections to some of your posts:
1. Standard 22 long rifle rifle hollow points are not banned anyplace in the USA
2. Standard 5.56mm 62 gr ammo does not fragment. It does tumble on impact making the would channel slightly larger but nothing like a standard .45 auto would at these ranges.
3. .223 Remington ammo (the civilian equivalent of 5.56mm Nato ammo) is outlawed in many states for hunting deer sized animals because it is considered underpowered. Apparently some states don’t think it is the lethal killing machine that you do.
4. Many of us who have actually been in combat know that it sometimes takes 2-5 center of mass hits on a determined opponent to bring him down with the standard 5.56mm Nato round. You see people are sometimes harder to kill than paper targets.

Sep 17, 2013 4:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

“Alexis was armed with an AR-15 military-style assault rifle”
Here is another news outlet on my BS list!!

if you can’t report Fact get out of the game. THERE WAS NO AR-15. Get Over your selves.

Sep 17, 2013 4:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@jameson4Lunch, I stand corrected, I was wrong in saying that hollow point ammunition is illegal. I was thinking about the fact that the Hague convention prohibited their use in international conflicts.

with regards to lethality of the .22 vs the 5.56×45mm NATO used in AR-15 type weapons, you say with the .22 all you need is ‘Just a little hole in one of a few key areas and the desire to make that hole.’ that is true, but with the 5.56X45mm no need to worry about a key area, one shot to the torso or the head, and the person is pretty much going to die.

Sep 17, 2013 4:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Oh, how peculiar that almost all of the media was so eager and willing to report that he had an AR-15; But, now that it has been confirmed this disgusting act was committed with a shotgun and handgun, there almost no mention or outcry. As of the time of writing this, nor this article or many others discuss it. More selective, liberal reporting from all of the lame-stream sycophants. And no, I’m not a Republican. I’m not advocating that everyone should have weapons, either. I’m just someone who will say things honestly. user USApragmatist and the like: murder is illegal, regardless of the gun..someone evil enough to commit acts like this will hurt people one way or another. This person would have gone in there with a bat, as long as he knew he could. Liberals have fantasy-world beliefs they try to force on everyone, and they continue to divide this nation more than anything else.

Sep 17, 2013 4:48pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
QuidProQuo wrote:

Well, considering the pattern lately for a a weakened vetting process everywhere, I won’t be shocked if more off balanced people make their way into so called secure zones. Look, if our own government is willing to arm Syrian rebels and our president is waiving provisions of the Arms Control Export Act (ACEA) that restrict the U.S. from providing munitions, credits and licenses to countries supporting acts of terrorism by providing arms to Syrian rebels known to be aligned with terrorists, what’s really left to trust as far as true alignment to what is considered National security interest protections. I think Obama is hell bent on making sure terrorist Islamic radicals get weapons and use them. Sick as it sounds, I don’t really think Obama could care less if arms get into the hands of future murdering scums that have nothing but evil intentions.

Sep 17, 2013 4:54pm EDT  --  Report as abuse


I corrected myself with regards to hollowpoint ammo.

With regards to the 5.56X45 mm NATO round, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO ….

‘ If the bullet impacts at high enough velocity and yaws[4] in tissue, fragmentation creates a rapid transfer of energy which can result in dramatic wounding effects.[5][6][7]‘

‘The 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge with the standard 62 gr. steel core bullets (NATO: SS109; U.S.: M855) will penetrate approximately 15 to 20 in (38 to 51 cm) into soft tissue in ideal circumstances. As with all spitzer shaped projectiles it is prone to yaw in soft tissue. However, at impact velocities above roughly 2,500 ft/s (760 m/s), it may yaw and then fragment at the cannelure (the crimping groove around the cylinder of the bullet).[20] These fragments can disperse through flesh and bone, inflicting additional internal injuries.[21]‘

and from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

‘Muzzle velocity 975 m/s (3,200 ft/s)[4]‘ which is greater then the 2,500 ft/sec needed for fragmentation.

And these facts from wikipedia are backed up by other websites, or else I would not use it.

Sep 17, 2013 4:56pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
jimwoods wrote:

Of course he heard voices. Barack Obama telling him that if anybody objected to anything he did it was prima facie proof of racism.

Sep 17, 2013 5:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ForrestS wrote:

So he had a Secret clearance and got a Biden approved shotgun in the strictest gun control district, with a rap sheet and mental illness, took handguns at the shipyard at gunpoint and killed a bunch of defenseless people who were denied the basic human right of self defense in a “gun-free zone”, and all the idiot democrat media and politicians can talk about are AR-15 “Assault” rifles, which weren’t even used, and “gun control”, which works so admirably well in D.C., given their high murder rate and this latest rampage. Our democrat press and politicians have, once again, failed us miserably.

Sep 17, 2013 5:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
john2014 wrote:

Questions that the Lame Street Media will never ask about this tragedy:

1. The shooter was a ‘contractor’ ? With his record how did he even get a position let alone secret clearance [all employers troll Net for information on a person];
2. What did he do exactly? They say IT but what did he do and
3. What about hi employer ‘The Experts’ sounds creepy and are they a CIA front?
4. The story was he shot with a shot gun and pistol- how could he shoot so many with those?
5. How did he get a shotgun past gate security? How did he stash weapons around to use?
6. Why were there not lots of armed employees around at a Navy yard?
God bless you and let us pray for the victims

Sep 17, 2013 5:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
john2014 wrote:

Questions that the Lame Street Media will never ask about this tragedy:

1. The shooter was a ‘contractor’ ? With his record how did he even get a position let alone secret clearance [all employers troll Net for information on a person];
2. What did he do exactly? They say IT but what did he do and
3. What about hi employer ‘The Experts’ sounds creepy and are they a CIA front?
4. The story was he shot with a shot gun and pistol- how could he shoot so many with those?
5. How did he get a shotgun past gate security? How did he stash weapons around to use?
6. Why were there not lots of armed employees around at a Navy yard?
God bless you and let us pray for the victims

Sep 17, 2013 5:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xyz2055 wrote:

RedBoy..amend the Constitution to say what?

Sep 17, 2013 6:01pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Ounbbl wrote:

Contrary to Obama and his brain-washed, gun does not kill, but human beings with psychotic, sociopathic, crimial, and evil. The whole thing of Navy Yard incident tells as how those supposedly in charge of security go by carelessly and absent-mindedly about the very business they are charged with.

Sep 17, 2013 6:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Something does not make sense here, from the article..

‘Alexis started picking off victims in a cafeteria from a fourth-floor atrium, witnesses said, killing victims aged between 46 and 73. Eight more were hurt, three with gunshot wounds, before Alexis was killed in a gun battle with police.’

Unless possibly using slugs, you are not going to be ‘picking off’ victims from range with a shotgun or handgun. That would require a long barreled rifle of some sort, yet now they are saying he had a shot gun and 2 pistols. Something not adding up here, either he had some sort of long barreled weapon, or they way they worded what happened is not correct.

Sep 17, 2013 6:26pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
YesNoMaybeSo wrote:

Another young male with mental illness gets violent. If they are on their meds fine but I’m sick and tired of hearing that they are harmless and just like everyone else. NO they are NOT they need help and laws keeping them away from firearms. It is just frigging common sense, time to wake up the politicians.

Sep 17, 2013 6:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

1% of adult males hear voices. 285,000 adult males currently in U.S. Navy. = 2,850 Navy personnel hearing voices at any given time. Why would this guy stand out as an imminent threat if he made no such threats? This type of event is pretty much unscreenable.

Sep 17, 2013 6:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

xyz asks: “RedBoy..amend the Constitution to say what.”

To fix what we keep arguing about: “well-regulated” and “shall not be infringed” appearing in the same sentence. The Second Amendment is a sloppy, and (as we now know) confusing sentence. How is something (a right in this case) well-regulated and not infringed at the same time? Constitution doesn’t say. Moves on to the quartering of soldiers in private homes. Luckily, the Constitution is a living document and contains its own instructions on how to amend as needed. Gotta love that.

Sep 17, 2013 6:56pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

we have a president and a first lady living in the whitehouse that hate America the first lady has come out and stated she was embarrassed to be an American up until her husband managed to weasel his way into the whitehouse TWICE!!! is it any surprise that our military installations have absolute garbage for security…the people in this country are coming unhinged we have veterans that have been placed in battle zones for way too long because this countries elected leaders have no clue what diplomacy is and they also have no clue how to wrap up an invasion in a foreign land occupied by cave dwellers, my heart goes out to these victims and their families but our way of life is constantly under attack from our own government there are people living in the streets with no hope while our elected officials are living high on the hog and in some cases better than royalty, and then things like this guy going off the deep end and shooting up a military installation, and next week will be business as usual with our elected officials threatening to shut down the country if they don’t get their way, this whole situation could be somewhat less tense if our elected officials would get their collective heads out of their behinds and start paying just a little attention to whats going on right here in this country I fear that this country is on the edge of another civil war itself corporate America and the government they have bought and paid for are pushing too far…something has got to give, forget Syria, forget Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and all the rest of those countries, again I feel for their citizens, but there are huge issues festering here in this country and it would be a huge mistake to just leave the country on autopilot…I ask the elected officials in America to pay attention to what is happening to America it is being destroyed from neglect…Mr. Obama can rest assured his legacy as The Worst President EVER is safe we would be hard pressed to ever elect a worse president…

Sep 17, 2013 7:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xyz2055 wrote:

AlkalineState..the founding fathers of our country where brilliant. Incredible men. No on governing today holds a candle to any of those gentleman. When you think back to those days and the hardships they endured..the amendments make a lot more sense. Amazing that they (the Amendments) are still relative today. The war wages on.

Sep 17, 2013 7:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
BadaBoomer wrote:

Can somebody get this FBI spokesperson to say, “Yes sir, Mr. Lecter sir,”

Sep 17, 2013 7:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Tuco_bad wrote:

Picture is reversed!

Sep 17, 2013 8:13pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
arnoldripkin wrote:

Bosses today are becoming more and more deceitful and vindictive. The rewards for firing, rather laying and thereby denying unemployment benefits is quite tempting to those seeking advancement at any cost to others. Just sayin…..

Sep 17, 2013 9:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
VultureTX wrote:

showing your historical ignorance there.
it is well known that well regulated meant “trained and provisioned” at the time of the document.

Sep 17, 2013 9:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
deerecub1977 wrote:

So they were supposedly warned yet did nothing. What good would tougher background check do then? People need to stand up to the rogue people ruining our country.

Sep 17, 2013 10:47pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Even after Manning and Snowden, there is obviously no campaign to revisit the overall security clearance “problem” – why? The news media is asking that question; why not the “talking heads” in DC? This “shooting” event happened roughly one mile from the White House. Too late, there is “talk” of reviewing “military” security clearances; but there are radically more security clearances which so obviously need a second and closer look.

Granted, it’s still early in the investigation; but too much was in the media too soon, about Alexis. Too much doesn’t add up, ala Timothy McVeigh.

Alexis wasn’t a “contractor;” he was the employee of a civilian contractor; ala Edward Snowden. Who actually did Alexis’ security check? According to accounts, thus far, his Navy Reserve security clearance should have been revoked, prior to his discharge – even as a “weekend warrior.”

Was Alexis forcibly “discharged” from the Navy Reserve; or was he denied re-enlistment? There’s a huge difference.

More Needs Scrutiny –

Purportedly (according to early reports), on his first day on his new job, Alexis immediately discovered the one building without a metal detector; then proceeded straight to the best vantage point to kill as many civilian “old people” as he could.

Such is a lot of precision for “… hearing imaginary voices.”

There is no personal political or social “statement” or criminal “signature” in this picture. If “killing” was his intended ‘payoff,’ he could have killed far more off base. He didn’t need to use a Navy facility to commit “suicide-by-cop.” If he had a grudge against the Navy; why didn’t Alexis shoot at least one sailor?

Another Case for Gun Control –

First, Alexis was reported to have used an AR-15; of late, only a shotgun and a 9mm, secured at the shooting site, from a guard. (Oh, for the “politically convenient” outrage against the AR-15, in the interim!)

In far more objective perspective, how many are aware of the annual U.S. “medical malpractice fatalities” numbering roughly 200,000 “deaths” per year – versus roughly annual 9,000 murders by guns (after deducting gun-related suicides); and certainly roughly 15,000 annual automobile deaths?

Relative to gun-control “perception,” we don’t forget to include the very recent fatal police “mis-shootings” of a 100-year-old man, the injured and unarmed motorist seeking police help; and the two wounded women in the shadow of police “close-range misses” of the intended (unarmed) man, in New York.

Just, Exactly, Who is Who –

Why were DC cops and Park Service police almost instantly on site – where was the Navy “security?” The Naval facility is described as “highly secure.”

Why did the FBI (Justice Department) instantly secure the lead in the investigation? This was NCIS jurisdiction with the “understood” FBI supporting assistance being totally available; just via PR & “politics.”

Instead of law enforcement, Alexis’ closest friends were interviewed by the news media – while his mother (who reportedly hadn’t seen him in years) was grilled by NYPD for hours; with her apartment secured by “Police Line – Do Not Cross” tape? Exactly, what is the NYPD interest, jurisdiction and/or “Probable Cause?” The FBI asserted itself as the “lead” investigation agency, remember?

My God, what if –

Is Alexis another “Manchurian Patsy?” He fits the ‘standard model’ – a secretly-disturbed enigmatic (male) loner, seemingly on a soul-searching quest, disenfranchised from his family for a period of years; with a very limited circle of friends, who can’t begin to imagine the individual as being capable of the presented ‘reality.’

Then, why this second community “Shelter-in-Place” drill (the Boston area being the first)? How extensive was this one? What “police agency(s)” instituted and enforced this “Shelter-in-Place” operation? What “authority” supposedly allowed “Shelter-in-Place” to be used in the Boston area; or this community (yet undefined in size)? “Shelter-in-Place” didn’t work in the Boston Marathon bombing; why was it instantly put in place in the DC area?

Seriously, is “America” being conditioned to blindly accept another new “police state norm” (meme)?

The FBI still hasn’t accounted for supposedly “dropping the ball” on the Tsarnaev (Boston Marathon) case. No one is supposed to ask about the “mysterious” FBI killing of a witness related to Tamerlan Tsarnaev – in a previous ‘known’ case.

Too little is yet known about Alexis; but the documented peripheral law-enforcement details, alone, don’t add up. Just those details deserve objective scrutiny – by an independent entity; to include the American public.

Why is Such Remotely Pertinent –

For those old enough to remember the John and Robert Kennedy assassinations – being against the Viet Nam war (start-up and continuation, respectively) and the replacement of the CIA: Think to Obama’s failure to meet the demands of those “powers” in the political shadows – just relative to “Syria,” alone. Could this ‘mysterious’ shooting massacre be a warning to Obama – or possibly a precursor?

Seriously – given the insanity (consensus) of current American politics (domestic and foreign) – is the contemplation of that question particularly off-scale?

Think –

However inadvertently, Obama (via his so-called “Arab Spring” – incomplete by virtue of Assad’s survival & persistence) has poised Russia to become the dominant international influence in the (oil-rich) Middle-East.

Syria, uniquely, is in no way, shape or form an “American” problem – versus being a problem for the UN; nor, is Iran. So, what’s the “real deal?”

Russia already has Iran and Syria in its hand; Iraq is clearly desperate for a new “friend.” As far as Iraq is concerned, the USA “… has left the building.”

The conventional “powers-that-be” are obviously intolerant of either Russia gaining the obvious ground – or the survival of Iran, in its current form. Yet, Iran’s major opponents continue to essentially tell Iran that they are insane, if they don’t develop nuclear weapons to ensure their survival!

Israel has spoken; but Obama has skewered himself upon his own sword – refusing to quit wiggling. Currently, Obama, and the American public, are an Israeli “problem.”

However legally and politically insane, Obama (“America,” by unwilling default) is being required to militarily facilitate the obvious “power” agenda – relative to at least “Syria.” If not Obama, it’s clear that Biden has no reservations – the U.S. Constitution, American law and the indisputable sentiment of the American public be damned!

However eloquent and charismatic Obama may be, since the start of his Presidential candidacy, Obama has consistently set suspect goals – then reliably failed to achieve them, versus the opposite. Thus far, Obama has held himself out as a bad example of personal and political legacy. His stewardship isn’t even required for the upcoming withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Is Obama at least “politically expended?”

A shooting massacre so close to the White House; with U.S. “security clearances” now everywhere in doubt, the U.S. Justice Department heads looking at criminal indictments (just over “Operation Fast & Furious”) – how ‘secure’ is Obama; or “America?” All requisite “plausible assertion/denial” scenarios are now front-loaded.

Alas, Democracy; thou hast unwittingly descended into depravity, whoredom and disease!

Alas, poor Aaron, had more noted and cared, thou woudst be known; and not merely remembered.

In just the matter of the “security clearance problem,” it must be asked: “Who (and how many) are NOT paying attention?”

In concert, it must also be asked: “Out of roughly four million, how many more rotten eggs have ‘secret’ and ‘top-secret’ security clearances?”

With the Foxes (corporate profiteers) both operating and guarding so many U.S. Government Hen Houses; who is going to attend to such an obvious and unacceptable problem?

In the interim, what – and how many – nightmares await “America?”

Sep 17, 2013 11:13pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MrOkakopa wrote:

I have to empty my pockets and walk through a metal screener to go to the local Social Security Office yet this guy can walk into a Military installation armed with weapons and ammo with total impunity! What is the Navy thinking? Let’s see how they twist this and make it someone else’s problem, deflect blame, and obfuscate their obvious security lapses.

Sep 17, 2013 11:56pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JHS378 wrote:

Look at the root cause of this. Based on what I’ve read about him, this is a man who felt disconnected from the world. He had no one to listen to him. No one to really ask him how he was doing. He felt he was not being treated well by everyone around him, but no one has time or maybe no one cares enough to be a therapist. These are real issues and they need to be addressed to prevent people from lashing out so extremely.

I feel most people in power don’t understand that we as an entire people are vulnerable. Not everyone is emotionally strong enough to brush off things. What are you supposed to do with these people? Isolate them?

Someone needs to step in here and talk about mental health. This is a problem and it should be taken seriously.

Maybe the American Psychological Association? Isn’t that what they’re supposed to be lobbying for? They should set up campaigns to promote taking care of your emotional well being seriously because, and I’m generalizing here, I assume most men and minorities would all say I don’t need a therapist.. it’s for crazy people and I’m not crazy. They should push for psychological treatment in healthcare coverage. And Obama should include psychological treatment (just talking to a therapist every now and then) in his new healthcare plan.

This is a long term solution people. Someone with power and money please think big picture.

Sep 18, 2013 1:10am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mustafaspeaks wrote:

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Sep 18, 2013 2:28am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ermmm wrote:

He heard a voice? Who?

Sep 18, 2013 2:40am EDT  --  Report as abuse
gigmaster wrote:

This story stinks. There is no way this guy got a Secret Security Clearance, and got on base with a shotgun. And local Police have no authority on a military base, and would not be allowed in during an incident. It would be Navy Shore Patrol and Marines. This is an inside job all the way.

Why is it that when Pres. Obama has political problems, there is always some sort of shooting incident to attract attention away from the budget, deficit, Obamacare, etc….? Pretty convenient…. This is like the third incident during his tenure, right? And none of the official stories check out.

Sep 18, 2013 4:30am EDT  --  Report as abuse
lololita wrote:

There needs to be a lot of changes. First he shouldn’t have been allowed to buy a gun after shooting out someone’s tires and also shooting in someone’s window. He should have been arrested for that but he did live in Texas where they allow things that other states wouldn’t allow. Also he should have never been able to get in any government building. He also needed to be institutionalized but of course we told want to take away those crazy killer’s rights.

Sep 18, 2013 6:48am EDT  --  Report as abuse
EthicsIntl wrote:

Too many guns, too many killings. America is now the world’s most unsafe country.
Congratulations !!!

Sep 18, 2013 6:58am EDT  --  Report as abuse
EthicsIntl wrote:

Ok Boys !
Let’s arm every man, woman and child to protect ourselves from each other.

Everyone is vulnerable to stress and break-downs, and our military trains our service-men for insensitivity to cold blooded murder. Throw in the NRA and all low self esteem, fearful gun owners and activists and you’ve got the perfect recipe for such disasters.

Sep 18, 2013 7:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Atheissimo wrote:

@ gcf1965

The UK/AUS crime rate isn’t any higher than the US one, that’s a result of poor statistics.

All three nations use very different methods to record violent crime and the systems are not directly comparable. The UK classes many, many more crimes as ‘violent’ for example, which artificially inflates the number of ‘violent’ crimes compared with the US.

Sep 18, 2013 8:16am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ihavenone wrote:

I wonder if evangelical ministers who have been called by GOD to lead their Church exhibit signs of mental illness?

Sep 18, 2013 8:24am EDT  --  Report as abuse
actnow wrote:

Strike three and your out! Nadal Hassan’s mass killing at Ft. Hood, the Wiki Leaks traitor, and now this guy. What do they all have in common? The military saw the issues and did NOTHING! Time to stop being so PC and start taking action….Americans are dying.

Sep 18, 2013 9:30am EDT  --  Report as abuse

Yes, I hear voices too. The voices are saying our military lacks focus, doesn’t know what kind of people it employs, lacks real leadership and is grossly inept.

Sep 18, 2013 9:56am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Ed21 wrote:

Another patsy of the CIA’s MK-ULTRA program.
Same MO as many others. A lone gunmen, had mental issues, watched lots of videos and probably was on several fluoride based anti-psychotics. Also many died. Dead men tell no tales.

Remember James Holmes and Jared Loughner

WHO BENEFITS from this action?

Those advocating the UN’s Agenda 21 program. Another push to disarm the American people.

Sep 18, 2013 10:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Doc00001 wrote:

Too busy wiretapping regular Americans and too little scrutiny for thems that work in Govt’. SCRAP THE PATRIOT ACT!

Sep 18, 2013 10:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:


“But because of the high muzzle velocity and the designed behavior of the bullet to tumble and or fragment when hitting a body”

You are right but wrong.
It is the twist ratio of the barrel and only with some rounds will it ‘tumble’. This is NOT an intended design as you imply but a flaw that occurs only with certain twist ratios coupled with specific rounds NOT designed for that particular firearm. It does NOT tumble through the air as a ‘feature’ (it would be impossible to hit anything if it did) but does ‘yaw’ once it enters flesh.
*1986 article by Jim Sullivan of Armalite Div of Fairchild . . . With the 1:14 twist, it was just barely stabilized.
The twist was increased with the introduction of the M16A1 to 1 turn in 12″. The bullet traveled slightly farther in to flesh before beginning to yaw.
It was this yawing that was called “tumbling”, and many misinterpreted this to mean the bullet tumbled through the air. It did not.

Now, ballistics lesson aside.
You still can’t seem to come to grips with the fact that the shooter had no business being out in society armed or unarmed. He was in need of mental health confinement. I suspect that it is the fact that due to the ACLU forcing the release of the violently mentally ill into society without supervision or medical care that these deaths occur. The availability of firearms simply makes them more efficient. So I can only assume that it is not the deaths that bother you but the headcount. Kind of a wholesale vs retail argument, isn’t it?
Why NOT go to the source and try and do something about the violently mentally ill? Why not solve that problem and stop all sorts of violence?

Sep 18, 2013 12:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

vultureTX writes: “it is well known that well regulated meant “trained and provisioned” at time of writing the Constitution.

Great. So amend it to say that. Just because you make something up, doesn’t make it true. Nowhere is ‘well-regulated’ defined or described in the Constitution. So it probably needs to be. The Constitution has instructions for amending it.

Sep 18, 2013 12:29pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Nilla wrote:

What if he really heard true voices ? It’s a big possibility. He didn’t have mental problems before – only quite typical masculine anger expressions.

The microwave auditory effect has been known for decades. Researchers were able to hear simple, short words transmitted via microwave emitter in a reported test in 1961. testing via more longer words might have been dangerous to health, the text states.


Sep 18, 2013 1:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:


2. also a standard .22, unless using banned hollow point ammunition, does not fragment and tumble upon hitting flesh like the standard Ar-15 round.

You’re not in the US are you?
Hollow point (or rather ‘expanding’)ammo is NOT banned in the US and in most areas it is illegal to hunt with ammo that doesn’t expand.
Also, for personal defense using anything but expanding ammo is stupid. Expanding ammo is also safer for use in the home as full jacketed ammo will continue on through the target and possibly into family members.
Even if you never want to own a firearm I suggest that you should take a course and have some actual hands on experience (your supposed firing off of a ship aside).
Could you be any less informed?

Sep 18, 2013 1:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

Alkaline State,

You don’t need to amend the 2nd Amendment, you just have interpret the writing correctly in historical context. (Same method you use for any historical document). The framers were not perfect, but they were not a bunch of uneducated dolts either. They used language that was clear in the that day and time.

As you know, with any language, the meaning of words changes with time. We have to be willing put the work in when interpreting these documents, and not be lazy (whether you are pro or anti gun control)

See the following uses of “well-regulated”:

The meaning of the phrase “well-regulated” in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: “If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations.”

1714: “The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world.”

1812: “The equation of time … is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial.”

1848: “A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor.”

1862: “It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding.”

1894: “The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city.”

The phrase “well-regulated” was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.

Establishing government oversight of the people’s arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

Sep 18, 2013 1:42pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:

For all of the idiots who do not understand the entire concept of Military Assault Weapons, why the lighter .223 round was used and the entire logistics of battle.

A) The US Military was against the concept of a lighter automatic rifle from the very beginning. They insisted that the smaller rounds lacked ‘stopping power’, this would lead to more rounds being fired. Full auto would expend ammo faster meaning more rounds fired. This would skew the ‘bullet per death’ ratio. It would cost more.
B) It would require an entire change in squad tactics as the US Army was used to the use of the BAR in concert with the M1 (they both used the .30-6 the BAR was automatic the M1 not).

What the military found out was . . .
“The conclusion was that most combat takes place at short range. In a highly mobile war, combat teams ran into each other largely by surprise; and the team with the higher firepower tended to win. They also found that the chance of being hit in combat was essentially random; accurate “aiming” made little difference because the targets no longer sat still. The number one predictor of casualties was the total number of bullets fired. . . These conclusions suggested that infantry should be equipped with a fully automatic rifle of some sort in order to increase the actual firepower of regular soldiers. It was also clear, however, that such weapons dramatically increased ammunition use and in order for a rifleman to be able to carry enough ammunition for a firefight he would have to carry something much lighter.”

So, they needed a lighter bullet so the soldier could carry more and accuracy was less important than number of bullets fired. The AR10 (what the M16 or AR15 is based on)used a 7.62 round (same as the AK47) so is considered too heavy (U.S. troops were able to carry more than twice as much 5.56×45mm* ammunition as 7.62x51mm for the same weight.
*While .223 is used as 5.56, 5.56 should never be used as .223 due to chamber pressure. But you knew that already didn’t you.

*side note ALL Assault rifles start with the Stg44 which used a 7.92 short basically a pistol round.

In short, the AR15/M16 was not designed to be more lethal or more accurate or to have dancing bullets or shattering bullets but to be simply lighter with the ability to go full auto enabling more rounds to be carried so more bullets could go down range.

Various links used
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/01/robert-farago/marine-223-may-not-be-lethal-enough-for-civilians/
and others

Sep 18, 2013 2:11pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@cbj, apparently you do not like to read, I corrected myself twice with regards to the legality of hollow point ammo. Plus I NEVER said that AR-15 rounds tumbled through air, if they did would not be as accurate as it is, a highly accurate weapon. You are fighting a losing battle when trying to argue physics with me.

And I doubt I will ever own a gun, may go to the range again in the future, but I have ZERO need for one. And by owning one I would significantly increase my chances of being hurt/killed by a gun. Personally I do not live in fear, which apparently many gun owners, from the nature of their posts, choose to do.

Sep 18, 2013 2:26pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Nietzschele wrote:

“Initial reports indicate that this is an individual who may have had some mental health problems,” U.S. President Barack Obama told Spanish-language network Telemundo.

If the reports didn’t indicate the above then the shooter could have been Obama in 16 years time.

Sep 18, 2013 2:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@cbj, thank you for backing up my overall point, which is that an AR-15 or other military assault weapon should not be available to the general public. I appreciate it.

Sep 18, 2013 3:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

USARealist, you make a compelling point on ‘well-regulated’ and how it does not mean limiting any arms to the people. So…. why do 2nd amendment advocates tolerate the government’s limitations on surface-to-air missiles, mortar installations, RPG’s, F-16′s, ICBM’s available to citizens. The government gets these weapons. Why not the people? Why the silence on this, while you clamor for better handgun access. Seems like a joke in the fight against ‘tyranny’, no?

Sep 18, 2013 3:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MikeyLikesIt wrote:


Please refrain from using the words “assault weapon”. An assault weapon is something designed to switch between semi-automatic and automatic fire which is heavily restricted in the US.

Also an AR-15 is nothing more than a gun that LOOKS scary. It has the same function and capabilities of a Ruger Mini-14 which (according to our democrat experts) is A-OK to own. And as has been pointed out previously, the total number of deaths last year by all rifles combined was less than the total number of deaths by hammers. The AR-15 is just a boogey-man for the anti-gun group to use to scare those that are ignorant of the facts.

As to your earlier question, the shooter used his shotgun to obtain a couple of pistols from the armed security. I’m not completely familiar with the situation, but if the area he was shooting at was heavily populated with people, it could simply be that no matter where he was shooting at first he was bound to hit someone.

I’m sure we’ll know more when the actual facts get out, but by then the media hype will have ended and no one will really care.

Sep 18, 2013 3:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:

You truly are incapable of rational thought.

The current AR15 platform available for the general public is UNACCEPTABLE for military use as it is NOT a MILITARY ASSULT WEAPON.
It is a single shot auto loading firearm incapable of automatic firing. . . why can you not grasp that?.
It is no more a military weapon than a piper cub is a fighter jet.

You don’t want to outlaw the AR15 but rather all firearms. The use of the AR15 is but a starting point so cut the crap and be honest.

Perhaps the reason you would increase your chances of getting hurt/killed if you owned a gun is because of your personality?

I own several firearms because I enjoy them, I can afford them, it drives liberals batpoop crazy and it is my right. Do I live in fear? Not at all. Is it because I have my firearms? Nope, not at all, I could get rid of them today and not miss a beat but then I’d just have to find another way to bug idiots such as yourself.
Again, if you really want to make the world a safer place you would do so much better working for a viable and sustainable method of providing universal health care and getting the violently mentally ill off of the streets and into care.
I more than suspect you would see a significant drop in random acts of violence. You would also significantly reduce the number of homeless and improve society to no end. Of course you’d have to find ways to fund it. Gee, if only we had charity hospitals like we used to before the government got involved.
If you can not grasp that these acts of violence are CAUSED by mental derangement and getting rid of all of the guns in the world does nothing to end this derangement then you really are not interested in your fellow human beings welfare but rather this monomaniacal prog-lib agenda of removing all firearms from the public domain.

Sep 18, 2013 4:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
USARealist wrote:

Alkaline state – I made my point, so you are free to argue with yourself about banning guns, F-16′s, sparklers or sharp butter knives. Listen, if you want to argue for gun bans, that’s you’re right to do – just don’t use the 2nd amendment to justify it. (you simply can’t without being wrong) That last post was my public service for the day to make you and others smarter (you needed it) with regards to interpreting the constitution (or any old document up to, and including, yesterdays newspaper. Remember: context is king.), it was not intended to change your opinion.

Sep 18, 2013 4:50pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

USARealist, thanks. But can you point to any place where I said we should ‘ban guns.’ Discussing regulations when the Constitution says ‘well-regulated’ is not a proposal to ban guns. Any more than a driver’s license is a ban on cars. If you want to make people smarter…. you have to say smart things first :)

Sep 18, 2013 5:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

@cbj, google ‘convert AR-15 to full auto’, then you may realize that it is more or less the same thing as an M-16.

And the reason I think I would be more likely to be hurt/killed by a gun if I owned one then if I did not, is STATISTICS, perhaps you have heard of this thing called logical analysis? although maybe you have not. And one of the main tools for someone to perform a logical analysis is statistical analysis of situations. And this shows that gun owners are MUCH more likely to be a victim of gun violence then non-gun owners. Really not that complicated.

And FYI it does not bother me that you have guns, as long as you passed a thorough background check and have them registered so if someone is harmed by them we know who was ultimately responsible.

Not ONCE have I argued for a total gun ban, I challenge you to peruse my post history and find one example where I was advocating for a total gun ban.

Sep 18, 2013 5:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
prolibertate wrote:

victim disarmament zones/gun-free zones attract mentally-ill/SSRI-addled gunmen. The solution is to encourage gun ownership and usage and banning SSRI’s instead. More guns = less crime!

Sep 18, 2013 6:18pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Prolibertate, the reason we have so many mass killings from guns is…. not enough guns in America? If that were true, the gun-restricted countries like Australia, Sweden, UK…. would have more gun deaths than than America each year. They don’t. They have far fewer. So your theory is wrong right off the bat. It’s fun… but wrong.

Sep 18, 2013 6:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
CountryPride wrote:

How was this possible. Miltary bases are gun free, DC is gun free, oh yes, once again criminals don’t care about your gun control or whatever laws you make. You only can take away the rights of innocent citizens who abide by the law and empower the criminals to take advantage of a now unarmed populace. Sounds like what the criminal tyrants want anyways!

Sep 18, 2013 12:38am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Anonymous2234 wrote:

Who cares that he had clearance to a naval base. The military? So dumb! If he didn’t have clearance he would have hit civilians. And I guarantee you the president would not have called us patriots, more like innocent bystanders, and probably meat bags to to the military. The real question is, why didn’t the V.A. treat him, when he sought help??????? I am a medicaly discharged Marine for bi-polar disorder. The Navy nor the V.A. ever took the initiative to treat my condition, I had to rely on loved ones with medical insurance to finally maintain a medical solution to a rather simple imbalance. It took many years, and I had a few questionable episodes in the interim. Don’t worry, I do not own a gun. I rather bring it to hassad for denying his people the freedom they are fighting for in Damascus.

Sep 19, 2013 3:19am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jameson4Lunch wrote:

Why’s everyone fixated on the .223 here, anyway? Shooter used a shotgun, and pistols that he obtained on the base.

And just for the misinformed:

Assault Rifle – Military gun capable of automatic and/or burst fire.

Assault Weapon – Arbitrary term created by politicians to classify certain weapons as more dangerous, mostly based on appearance, not functionality.

Assault rifles are illegal without a class 3 license and heavy federal oversight, and have been that way for a long time.

Sep 19, 2013 8:23am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:

“google ‘convert AR-15 to full auto”

Did you?
This is the same sort of hucksterism that claims one can convert any car to run with cooking oil with one simple adjustment.
It CAN be done but takes a bit more effort.
However, that’s NOT the point, the same government that you would have remove so called assault rifles from civilian hands and make them illegal to own has already made it illegal to modify any semi auto to fire in full without BATFE approval and signed off paperwork. Violations are a major Federal crime, which are aggressively prosecuted.
The hammer, bolt carrier, sear and other parts are all different and are not ‘drop in’ replacements without modifications by someone who knows how to do gun smithing. Some of the various ‘home modifications’ are dangerous as they may cause ‘slam fire’ where the cartridge can fire before the bolt is locked in place resulting in relocated body parts (the drive way,the neighbors yard etc.)
Let me guess, you bought those ‘Sea Monkeys’ from the back of your Archie comics when you were a kid.

You know as well as I that statistics also prove the reverse. If one has a higher chance of getting hurt or killed by simply owning firearms they either have no training, have no desire for training, are mentally ill or simply too stupid to suck air. Statistics also prove that most deadly accidents in the home occur in the bathroom, that’s why they make slip matts.
You are statistically proven to be more likely to die from heart disease but we’ve found that while outlawing superbiggulps makes sense on paper in the real world it doesn’t.
You need to live a little less academically and a bit more realistically.
Stating that more gun owners die from gun violence implies that you have removed accidental/unintentional gun deaths from the mix (as they are not ‘violence based’). I would also stipulate that the trick of retaining suicide via guns in the equation while violent should not be included, nor should death by police.
It is your inability to understand that a firearm is a tool and that the user decides what it will be used for and in typical prog-lib fashion you can’t handle the public having the responsibility of choice.

Sep 19, 2013 10:42am EDT  --  Report as abuse

These things happen in a dysfunctional society (where people are insensitive, oblivious and indifferent) hooked upon violence, excitement and tragic drama and subconsciously longs to indulge in their occasional joy of sorrow and public expression of grief and heroism for all the world to see. Not unlike in parts of the Middle East where people are happy only when they are tragically miserable since to subsist in a life so restrictive there’s nothing else enjoyable to do, but to court disaster. Asking for trouble, so to speak.

Sep 19, 2013 12:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Yanninono wrote:

The CDC has a filtering tool that summarizes gun deaths, from violence, or suicide for 16 of our 50 states. It is worth checking out. http://www.cdc.gov/DataStatisics/

I think the power in numbers speaks for itself…especially when weighing probability. it allows to subtract ethnicity.

numbers dont lie… the people who interpret them do though.

I do agree with advocatus, that our general disrespect for others, ease of access, with blurring lines of right and wrong, are making our society a mess. just like the middle east.

Sep 19, 2013 4:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
cbj wrote:

If it is incomplete than it is inaccurate if it is inaccurate than it is meaningless as a statistical base.

The fact is that one shooter used a 9mm another used an AR15 and this guy used a shotgun and pilfered pistols. So outlawing the AR15 is meaningless.
The one commonality is mental illness. Solve that problem alone by the use of institutions or treatments and you will solve the brunt of seemingly random acts of violence. It is the one thread that runs through everything.
You people have to quit following the sacred agenda of gun control.
The reason that most of these other nations have less gun violence is not because they have limited access to guns but because they have seemingly limitless access to mental health care and the ability to lock up the violently mentally ill.
Deny it and be a liar.

Sep 19, 2013 5:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
friendss wrote:

Morpheus: You take the blue pill, the sotry ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Neo, sooner or later you’re going to reallize, just as I did, that there’s a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path. A World without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries; a world where anything is possible.

Tank: So what do you need? Besides a miracle.

Neo: Guns. Lots of guns.

Sep 20, 2013 10:34am EDT  --  Report as abuse
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