Pennsylvania judge strikes down state's voter ID law

Comments (46)

Good decision to maintain the fairness of our elections.

Jan 17, 2014 2:44pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

If there is no ID, how the hell do you know if the person is the person they claim to be???? You have to show an ID for banking,
at the DMV, at a bar, so what the heck, keep improper or illegal
people out of the voting booth. The judge is unconstitutional.

Jan 17, 2014 2:55pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

Lets let ANYBODY vote, and vote often.

Jan 17, 2014 2:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
mikentina02 wrote:

So it’s right for a bank to make you show photo ID to cash a check. It’s right for the Fed. to make you hand over a copy of your birth certificate to open a bank account. But it’s unconstitutional to make you prove your a legal citizen or even a resident of that state in order to vote there. Go ahead and ask yourself. How did we ever get here?

Jan 17, 2014 3:12pm EST  --  Report as abuse

@EastBerlin, take some adirol for your ADD, you only have to hit post once.

@EastBerlin and Mikentina02, Please provide verifiable proof that election fraud is prevelant enough to taint the outcome of ANY national election, sure it has in some small local elections. But not cause of voter ID. This is simply a Republican attempt to help swing elections in their favor in the future.

OO and FYI, driving a car or opening a bank account are not rights guaranteed to citizens in the Constitution.

Jan 17, 2014 3:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

“The state of Pennsylvania has acknowledged there has never been a case of in-person voter fraud, according to court testimony.”
That makes no sense considering there is not an ID to verify identity. My prediction is that it will be heard by the State Supreme court and if the law is properly written, the state will have a favorable outcome. Voter ID, when properly instituted does not disenfranchise anyone. However, not requiring identification disenfranchises everyone that votes legally.

Jan 17, 2014 3:43pm EST  --  Report as abuse
EastBerlin wrote:

Sorry for the multiple entries, my dog put his paw on the enter key.

Jan 17, 2014 3:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
QuidProQuo wrote:

I find it so weird that we have so many Jane and John Doe’s in America. No identification whatsoever. Hmmmm

Jan 17, 2014 3:58pm EST  --  Report as abuse
WhyMeLord wrote:

Koch brothers 19, human-rights activists 1; but the game ain’t over ’till the fat lady sings. Soon, the score will be tied, and eventually, human beings will prevail & the Koch brothers will lose.
They & their ilk are like the dinosaurs, their time has come & gone.
It’s absolute insanity to deny people the right to vote in the US.
If they live here, and they’re not in jail, they should be able to vote on what goes on here; if not, they should be deported right now.
The land-barons and monied-gentry would squawk about losing cheap labor, but what the heck, can’t have it both ways or it’s slavery.

Jan 17, 2014 4:01pm EST  --  Report as abuse
hawkeye19 wrote:

Imagine all those new illegal votes for Hillary, the Blood Queen of Benghazi.

Jan 17, 2014 4:27pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Trichiurus wrote:

Disenfranchising voters? Currently, in many states (e.g., Maryland), all that is required is to fill out a piece of paper that ask if you are a citizen; you can have it mailed to you or do it on line). This is all the the proof required (and of course it states if you lie, you could be penalized). There is no protection against voter fraud and illegals can and do easily vote. This and like decisions fly in the face of the Constitution and what its original intent is. The right to vote in a free society is one of the most precious privileges, but is now nothing more than a political plumb to be given away to whomever will support this abusive administration—including judges.

Jan 17, 2014 4:28pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

@4825

So you are still maintaining that Denmark, UK, New Zealand, and all the other advanced countries without voter ID have unfair elections.

On the other hand, removing anonymity from the voting process is very authoritarian, and (rightly) unconstitutional. You have to laugh at the way Republicans cherry-pick the bits of the constitution they like…

@tina2o

The huge logical hole in the right-wing argument is that while ID may prove citizenship, lack of of ID does not prove that an individual is *not* a citizen.

Jan 18, 2014 11:11am EST  --  Report as abuse
wildcat48 wrote:

In 2005, American University’s bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform — co-chaired by President Jimmy Carter and former secretary of state James Baker — wrote:

The electoral system cannot inspire public confidence if no safeguards exist to deter or detect fraud or to confirm the identity of voters. Photo IDs currently are needed to board a plane, enter federal buildings, and cash a check. Voting is equally important.

Jan 18, 2014 11:44am EST  --  Report as abuse
wildcat48 wrote:

Bakhtin…there’s nothing about voting in the Constitution. Bone up on your history, dude.

Jan 18, 2014 11:49am EST  --  Report as abuse
wildcat48 wrote:

Bakhtin…there’s nothing about voting in the Constitution. Bone up on your history, dude.

Jan 18, 2014 11:49am EST  --  Report as abuse
wildcat48 wrote:

Bakhtin…there’s nothing about voting in the Constitution. Bone up on your history, dude.

Jan 18, 2014 11:49am EST  --  Report as abuse
JL4 wrote:

How many registered voters failed to vote in the last election? Rather than worry about voter fraud, worry about citizen/registered voter apathy.

Jan 19, 2014 8:37am EST  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

@wildcat48

The US Constitution says nothing about voting? Are you serious? Practically the whole of articles 1 and 2 are about voting!

I think you, like so many Republicans, don’t know the difference between the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Here, educate yourself. Read the US Constitution, especially all the stuff about voting.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

In the bit that you think doesn’t exist, the very long part that is all about voting, notice how citizenship is required for the president or representatives, *but not for voters*.

Jan 19, 2014 11:44am EST  --  Report as abuse
tina20 wrote:

@Bakhtin

It does not say that citizenship is not required for voters! You are reaching way too far for that. In fact, between the 14th, 15th ammendments, etc. it is mentioned 4 times that voting is a right belonging to citizens of the United States. “the right of citizens of the United States to vote.”

While it may not say that non-citizens can’t vote, it does say that the protected rights to vote only belong to citizens. So, it can then be LOGICALLY said that voting rights can and should be constitutionally restricted to citizens.

By the way, I’m not right wing. But I’m at least smart enough to never be a liberal or a socialist.

Jan 19, 2014 1:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
gregio wrote:

Is the public so apathetic that they don’t care who goes in the voting booth? They seem to care about who drives cars, probably because drivers with no skill could threaten their survival. The public is really not connected to their government when they don’t demand proper identification for voting. That mentality explains why less than 50% vote in the off elections, we deserve every Obama we get, and when they run out of other peoples money I will NOT be helping anyone.

Jan 19, 2014 4:46pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

4825: It really is a no-brainer, unless you’re really a no brainer. If the potential for voter disenfranchisement is greater than the potential for voter fraud, then you don’t do it. Studies show that Pennsylvania’s voter law could potentially disenfranchise thousands of legal citizens. Studies also show that there is no voter fraud going on without the new law. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it, especially when the fix causes more problems than the “problem” it’s supposed to be fixing.

Republican legislatures have also reduced the number of days available to vote, including Sundays, a day traditionally used for voting by the black community. If it was a tradition for white Republican voters to vote on Sundays while leaving church do you think the Republicans would have banned voting on Sundays?

Furthermore, Pennsylvania’s Republican House Majority Leader admitted publicly that the voter i.d. law that they passed was intended to give the state of Pennsylvania to Mitt Romney. This is from his own mouth: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/25/mike-turzai-voter-id_n_1625646.html

When the leader of a political party that pushes such a voter i.d. law that Pennsylvania passed publicly admits that the law is intended to give Republicans an advantage in elections and that there is no indication that it will do anything constructive in the way of improving fairness of elections, then, like I said, it’s a no-brainer: you don’t do it.

Pennsylvania’s one of those states that have more Democrats than Republicans and yet the Republicans have gerrymandered the state in such a way that they send more Republican Representatives to Washington than Democratic. If you conservatives are really so inclined to defend our constitutional rights, where’s your outrage over that? People are having their representation stolen from them. Our Founding Fathers revolted due to the very purpose of being taxed without having adequate representation. Now the Republicans are pulling the same crap the British monarch pulled.

Jan 19, 2014 5:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

gregio: In that case let’s start requiring gun owners to register their guns, like in most countries that allow gun ownership. It really makes more sense than requiring voter i.d.s.

Voter fraud isn’t a problem because there’s nothing to gain and the penalties are stiff. No one wants to risk trying to vote twice. Why? You go in to vote. You tell them who you are. They mark your name off of a list. And you vote. Try to vote a second time and they’ll tell you you can’t. No need for expensive, burdensome voter i.d.s.

Jan 19, 2014 5:57pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@tina20 makes her (female or male??)politically unbiased point well. The right to vote is a privilege guaranteed to every U.S. citizen by the constitution. There is no argument. Question is – How do I know you are in fact one of the deserving this constitutional right?

The fact that there is “no evidence of voting fraud”, well, how do we know about fraudulent placement, or an attempt, of individual’s vote if we are barred from actually CHECK/VERIFY an individual’s identity, in terms of subject’s citizenship? After all, there is a difference in being a citizen of a particular state, which is usually determined by an individual’s residency, and being U.S. citizen.

We know for a fact that thousands and thousands of ‘voters’ are bussed and paid for their ‘vote as told’. Many, if not all, ‘bussed citizens’ are illiterate and/or mentally handicapped. Should this ‘organized vote’ be labeled as fraud since the whole idea is for an American to vote according to his/her true independant mind/conscience . . . ??

Yes, I know the U.S. constitution does not address this issue – just saying . . .

Jan 19, 2014 7:01pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

PaulBradley: Never make your argument thus: “We know for a fact that…” No, we don’t. Instead of writing something like that, supply us with the source of your information. If it’s so well known, it won’t take you but a few seconds to supply us with a link to a source. What makes you so certain that “thousands and thousands of ‘voters’ are bussed and paid for their ‘vote as told’. Many, if not all, ‘bussed citizens’ are illiterate and/or mentally handicapped”? This is news to me. How do YOU know this? Can you please share one of your many sources of proof?

Jan 19, 2014 7:31pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@flashrooster – The least you can do is to check the following:

“The Bus Project was founded in 2001 by Harvard Law School graduate Jefferson Smith. In the 2004 election, Bus volunteers canvassed numerous voters around the state, which may have contributed to the Oregon State Senate switching from Republican to Democratic control. In the 2006 Oregon elections the Oregon House of Representatives flipped to Democratic control following extensive canvassing by the Bus Project.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_Project

Jan 19, 2014 8:11pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@flashrooster
EYEWITNESS ALLEGES DEMOCRAT UNION VOTE FRAUD IN WISCONSIN

http://nation.foxnews.com/wisconsin-recall-election/2012/06/05/eyewitness-alleges-democrat-union-vote-fraud-wisconsin

Jan 19, 2014 8:13pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@flashrooster – 22 Signs That Voter Fraud Is Wildly Out Of Control And The Election Was A Sham
http://www.infowars.com/22-signs-that-voter-fraud-is-wildly-out-of-control-and-the-election-was-a-sham/

Jan 19, 2014 8:15pm EST  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@flashrooster – Just ‘Google’: “voters bussed in” and also check: “The U.S. Illiteracy Rate Hasn’t Changed In 10 Years”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/06/illiteracy-rate_n_3880355.html

Jan 19, 2014 8:17pm EST  --  Report as abuse
tina20 wrote:

@PaulBradley Well said!

I wonder why people have such a problem with verifying legal citizenship? Oh, it must be because they are just SO concerned with the many individual rights that have been violated by simply confirming that individuals placing votes are legally supposed to be making a decision which affects that country.
I hate to name any one party, but come on, most people know why Democrats are so against voter identification. If it wasn’t for entitlement handouts and some illegals, the Democrats would never have enough votes!

Jan 19, 2014 9:21pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

2tina20

The constitution states that citizenship is a requirement for presidency. It states that citizenship is required to be in congress or the senate. Ask yourself… if citizenship were required to vote as well, why did the writers forget to mention that bit? Either the writers were very forgetful, or citizenship is not required unless the constitution says so.

As for your reference to the 14th, i suggest you read it before commenting. The very first line says:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States”

which on its own puts a big hole in your right-wing argument. Taken with the 15th:

“The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.”

then essentially everybody born or residing in the USA has a constitutional right to vote, and you Republicans demanding ID cards are violating the constitution. The judge who threw this out was entirely correct to do so.

The principle is simple enough. If you live in country X, then you get a say in how country X is run because it affects your life. That is the entire point of the universal vote.

I would recommend checking these things before boasting about being smart…

Jan 19, 2014 10:56pm EST  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

@PaulBradley

The Bus Project travels around Oregon in a bus. So what? What is the problem? Lots of people do that. Did you just assume that they brought bus loads of voters, without bothering to check?

Empty allegations of fraud broadcast on Fox mean nothing without proof. Similarly with infowars. We already know that righties make these allegations, What they never, ever do is provide a shred of actual proof.

Jan 19, 2014 11:06pm EST  --  Report as abuse
flashrooster wrote:

PaulBradley: Please. Are you serious? This is exactly why conservatives have such a reputation for being dishonest and/or clueless. You write, “We know for a fact that thousands and thousands of ‘voters’ are bussed and paid for their ‘vote as told’. Many, if not all, ‘bussed citizens’ are illiterate and/or mentally handicapped.”
And for your “proof” to back up your statement you point me to The Bus Project. Perhaps you should read something before posting it to defend your position. They’re just a 501c4 organization that advocates progressive issues and supports progressive candidates. Since when is that the same as busing in people and paying them to vote as they’re told? What does the Bus Project have to do with illiterate or mentally handicapped people? WTF are you talking about? Where’s your evidence that the Bus Project buses people in and pays them to vote a certain way? You’ve got to be kidding.

Your next bit of “evidence” is no better. Come on, man. You’re actually offering as “proof” an article on FOX Nation about a guy who called in to Chris Plante’s rightwing extremist radio show and claims that “Democrat Unions” are busing people in from Michigan to vote in Wisconsin? And in your mind that’s considered proof? Wow. Doesn’t take much, does it? And then you include a link to an article about illiteracy in the US. What’s that even supposed to mean? How does an article about how the US literacy rate hasn’t changed in 10 years function as proof that people are bused in and paid to vote as they’re told? Nothing you’ve posted is even remotely supportive of your bogus claim. Many if not all bused citizens are illiterate or mentally handicapped??? Where do you get this crap from? Show me proof that thousands and thousands of people are being bused in and paid to vote as they’re told, and that most if not all are illiterate or mentally handicapped. Either give us proof or you’re a liar.

Jan 20, 2014 12:00am EST  --  Report as abuse
tina20 wrote:

@Bakhtin

You haven’t stated a single valid point. Nothing you stated disproves anything I said. You’ve only supported my viewpoint! lol

As for the 14th,
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States”

They have not proved that they are a citizen yet! lol. You said “If you live in country X, then you get a say in how country X is run because it affects your life.”
To live in a place and show up at the voter booth doesn’t make you a citizen. I think this is the part where you need some help:
cit·i·zen
noun
a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.
They don’t have the protection of citizenship because they haven’t proved it yet. Pretty simple! You’re saying that we just take everyone’s work for it. How about your bank just take someone’s word for it next time someone walks in and withdraws from your account? No cards, id’s, passcodes, or anything necessary. The bank should just assume the person is you, according to everything your saying.

Same for the 15th

Maybe it is you who should check some things first. You should just give up at this point.

Jan 20, 2014 12:08am EST  --  Report as abuse
Gilad724 wrote:

Wow, some people need to learn the difference between “trusted source” and “random information/opinion” when asked for providing proof. Some guy saw the vote flip to a default 5-10% of the time…must be true then…..

Jan 20, 2014 12:35am EST  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

@tina20

I can feel your desperation.

I pointed out that the unmarked option in the constitution is that citizenship is not required, easily proved by the numerous example’s where citizenship is stated as a requirement. You have no answer to that point.

The 14th, since you seem to have trouble understanding it, says that born or naturalised *is* citizenship. Have you really never heard of anchor babies? Maybe you are too young for that. If you actually knew what you were talking about, this had to be the situation as when the USA declared independance there were no citizens, so the 14th was written to make everybody ‘born or naturalised’ = living there automatically a US citizen. You have no answer for that point either.

Put very simply, the constitution says all US residents can vote, and citizenship is not a prerequisite. You Republicans demanding that it should be are going against the constitution. As I have said before, righties like you pick and choose which bits of the constitution you want to support.

Jan 20, 2014 5:47am EST  --  Report as abuse
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