Obamacare hits milestone, but detours ahead for health law

Comments (82)
mottleyfrog wrote:

Unless the enrolment was independently verified it the claim that they have met the minimum figure could be a hoax.

Mar 30, 2014 7:35am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Ren1 wrote:

Liberals, careful what you wish for you jus might get it! Republicans will take the Senate this fall.

Mar 30, 2014 7:45am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cfbcfb wrote:

Short version: “We republicans are hoping healthcare doesn’t work for americans and the whole thing devolves into mayhem so we can get re-elected”.

Mar 30, 2014 7:54am EDT  --  Report as abuse
fred5407 wrote:

Yah know, a law is not a win or a loss. It is a guideline to start with . If the Government is smart they use the good and throw out and replace the bad. If the Government is stupid and ignors the bad and forces it down the peoples throat the Government will lose. End of story.

Mar 30, 2014 8:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
greentheway wrote:

Once again some members of the Democratic party are acting on self interest and not for the well being of the American people.
Please take notice all you Democrats running for re-election you are not exempt from being voted out! The Progressives of this country have had enough of your self indulgence paid for on the backs of the working people. The ACA is the working man’s way to healthcare and we will not support candidates that do not support strengthening this action. Democrats should be seeking reelection based on caring for the masses and not stuffing their stockings with big $$ from insurance companies!

Mar 30, 2014 8:36am EDT  --  Report as abuse
greentheway wrote:

Once again some members of the Democratic party are acting on self interest and not for the well being of the American people.
Please take notice all you Democrats running for re-election you are not exempt from being voted out! The Progressives of this country have had enough of your self indulgence paid for on the backs of the working people. The ACA is the working man’s way to healthcare and we will not support candidates that do not support strengthening this action. Democrats should be seeking reelection based on caring for the masses and not stuffing their stockings with big $$ from insurance companies!

Mar 30, 2014 8:36am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

Didn’t Republicans say it would never work?

Mar 30, 2014 8:40am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Oma wrote:

The only sure thing about insurance is that we pay premiums.

Mar 30, 2014 8:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
dixiedog44 wrote:

A piece of trash legislation pushed through congress by slavish Oliar addicts that giddily chortled “pass it now, read it later”, it has been an Obamanation since it’s inception. Goals were set low purposely to insure that it would appear to be a success and – SURPRISE – those could not even be achieved despite the millions of taxpayer dollars, lies and insincere promises to try to promote it. History will record this administration as the most failed ever and their “signature” legislation as the most ill-conceived “snake-oil” sales promotion shoved down the throats of the majority of citizens that were opposed to it. This should be an object lesson to those that are content to elect elitist self-serving politicians that believe the people that elected them are not intelligent enough to choose what is best for the nation as guaranteed by the constitution.

Mar 30, 2014 9:02am EDT  --  Report as abuse
cheeze wrote:

At least he did something, it may have bugs, buts it’s something. Now the next hurtle is giving young people incentive to become medical doctors, because the way it’s shaping now, it’s not worth the investment.

Mar 30, 2014 9:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
rpt7777 wrote:

The figure they started at of 7 million newly insured was not met, and in fact they by their own admission now have about 6 million only that have expressed enough interest only yo ask the price. these have not been confirmed as to have following through to the point of payment where they would be insured. also of this 6 million many, if not most of them already had insurance and were kicked off their old policy and had to enroll. these can not be counted as newly insured as they were insured previously insured.
Additionally they are now 40 million uninsured….nearly the same as the inception of ACA 3 years ago.

Mar 30, 2014 9:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
sjfella wrote:

This largest clusterfluck of Obama will cost the overwhelming majority of Americans more money for less coverage than before he came along. Thanks for nothing you dolt.

Mar 30, 2014 9:22am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BubblesGump wrote:

I have very mixed feelings about Obamacare. First of all, a huge body of uninsured will remain. Wasn’t it this huge body of uninsured that got this whole thing rolling? Next, the premiums are not that wonderful. If it wasn’t for the government subsidies, many could not afford the premiums at all. People are told they qualify for cost sharing too. When you look at the actual offerings, many do not allow for cost sharing. So it becomes a mute point. Many policies have enormous out of pocket hurdles. This means most people will fund their own healthcare through out the year and only be covered for catastrophic situations. For young people, this is workable, for older folks, it means no healthcare in too many cases. To balance the cost of premiums and the deductibles/out of pocket expenses, many will have to go with HMO’s, which limit providers greatly. This is not a win-win situation for many. The underlying problems with our healthcare system will remain. Healthcare will continue to be cost prohibitive for the majority of people and continue to greatly out pace inflation. Until we address the obscene costs of healthcare and stop relying on insurance companies to fund this beast, I can’t see that we are really gaining anything.

Mar 30, 2014 9:25am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Dalmane wrote:

If you believe anything Obama or his administration says, after Obama’s famous statement, “If you like your plan you can keep it, period.”, you are ignorant and deserve what is happening to America.

Mar 30, 2014 9:25am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Oma wrote:

@ cheeze

Sixty years ago health insurance was not a big deal, if it even existed. Doctors earned a little more than the rest of the middle class, but they were available to their patients 24/7. Sick people were supposed to stay home and rest and not infect their communities, and doctors came to our houses. Our doctors took care of us, we loved and respected them. Nobody sued a doctor: if they had, they would have been ostracized. And there were no medical bankruptcies.

If a medical education is no longer a good investment maybe we’ll have doctors who want to heal rather than doctors who want a certain lifestyle.

Mar 30, 2014 9:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ccharles wrote:

The law is incoherent. There no way it will iron out in 4 or 5 years down the road, or even 10 years. And that is what they hope, it will iron itself out cause no one atm can see it working out. Im pretty sure you will see and know for sure what it has done to Medicaid, long before obamacare ever pans out. But does it matter anymore. The Goverment is so far out in left field as to what people want, and have gone so Godless… theres not much hope left, America is almost unrecognizable image of its past.

Mar 30, 2014 9:35am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Robertla wrote:

it can work…….we can create a stable flow of income for investors in healthcare and insurance………guaranteed, it’s the law…….investors have no fear.

it can work……we can divorce pricing from any guarantee of product value…..we can charge anything we want, and it’s the law.

it can work…..we can expand our market with forced consumption…….free choice is effectively eliminated…….we will sell inferior products at a premium price, to everyone, it’s the law

Mar 30, 2014 9:57am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DbPolk wrote:

Republicans had a plan. Get sick and die.

Mar 30, 2014 9:59am EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

“”We’re not really going to know whether it worked or not until the third or fourth year. And of course, that’s two elections down the road,” said Timothy Jost, a professor at the Washington and Lee University School of Law in Lexington, Virginia.

“What I worry about is that we won’t be able to figure out whether it’s worked or not until it’s too late,” he said.”

It is clear the Democrats already know that this law will not work as they claimed. That is why you see the dates continuing to be pushed out. The President knows that many more people will be pushed out of their plan and end up in the same position that the lady from NC did, paying more for less. The Dems do not care about the middle class in America. They will grind the middle class into the ground by taxing and redistributing us to death, if we allow them to. Middle class America needs to wake up to the destructive progressive liberal Democrat agenda before it is too late. America will fall once the middle class is gone.

Mar 30, 2014 10:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
peacenjustice wrote:

Who really thinks private, for profit health insurance companies are a cost effective solution to healthcare for everyone at affordable prices? Who votes for Republicans who basically tell the poor, “Tough luck, buddy. No job? Get one.” even when this is not realistically possible? Why not bring back the public option, to make coverage more affordable by cutting out the profit-taking? And how about laws to restrain the profits of drug makers and hospital corporations? Corporations, when not regulated sufficiently, always try to do what? Obama IS slippery and crafty to our detriment, but imagine Romney or Jeb Bush “taking care” of the poor. Support the movements to get money out of politics and support the people’s common sense budget of Grijalva and Ellison’s congressional progressive caucus. Look it up.

Mar 30, 2014 10:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
343434 wrote:

Obamacare is a heavily taxed and fee expansion of Medicaid. Romneycare in Massachusetts WAS a market oriented competitive exchange plan, that was dismissed right after Romney signed it, by Deval Patrick (an Obama ally) who took over in ’06 with his socialist agenda, using government controlled oversight exchanges, with taxes and fees to subsidize it.
If Massachusetts is the mirror plan to Obamacare, be prepared to pay high premiums and deductibles, since Massachusetts’ working middle class citizens pay THE highest health costs in America……period

Mar 30, 2014 10:12am EDT  --  Report as abuse

From the article:

“We’re not really going to know whether it worked or not until the third or fourth year. And of course, that’s two elections down the road,” said Timothy Jost, a professor at the Washington and Lee University School of Law in Lexington, Virginia.

“What I worry about is that we won’t be able to figure out whether it’s worked or not until it’s too late,” he said.

This is the most telling statement, because here you have the righties already saying this law is a failure. One can not be intellectually honest with one self and say that this law OSA success or failure at this point. Personally I do not like the PPACA, it is missing many things, like at a minimum a public option, but should be single payer. We should be putting for profit insurance out of business not bolstering it. But you do not see me crying like the right that it is a total failure, because unlike them I want healthcare to work better, and am willing to give this a chance over next 3-5 years, if it does not work then no reason can not do something different then.

Patience is a virtue, and the right has sure not been virtuous since the black man was elected.

Mar 30, 2014 10:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Beaver4 wrote:

Unbelievable that Republicans would permit insurance companies to once again discriminate against those who are seriously sick. State high risk pools have already been tried. In California the state’s high risk pool had a WAITING list, and a yearly cap of 75k, as well as a lifetime cap. It’s important to wait until you are age 65 (Medicare eligible) before getting sick. However, I believe Republican representatives want to increase the age of Medicare eligibility to 67.

Mar 30, 2014 10:41am EDT  --  Report as abuse
SalesDuJour wrote:

Is anyone counting the previously insured people who are dropping insurance because the cost is too high? Where are those statistics? How about thank yous from the poor to the middle class who are footing the subsidizing bill with enormous premium increase like my wife’s whose costs nearly doubled?

Mar 30, 2014 11:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
JCM-51A wrote:

LOL–sure they will come close to 7M which was their goal before it wasn’t and appears now to be their goal…The list of names will resemble Obama campaign contributors such as Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, the cast of Glee, etc. Eventually the truth will out.

Mar 30, 2014 11:49am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Oma wrote:

Nobody deserves what is happening to America. The financial fraud, mortgage problems, NSA and ACA were foisted upon us by shrewd, unscrupulous people. It is a wake up call for American citizens increase our vigilance, to watch over what our politicians do and call them to account when they abuse their power.

We should have responded forty years ago when we started getting hospital bills with $1.00 aspirins and $5.00 rolls of toilet paper. We were lulled into complacency because health insurance was paying a large part of the bills. We didn’t notice that insurance was also paying huge settlements for malpractice suits, which made the $5.00 toilet paper seem reasonable by comparison. Now, forty years later, we have a huge mess to sort out.

Mar 30, 2014 11:49am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mcundyf wrote:

The American healthcare system is now the Great American Nightmare.

Mar 30, 2014 11:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mcundyf wrote:

The American healthcare system is now the Great American Nightmare.

Mar 30, 2014 11:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Oma wrote:

@ cheeze

Fifty years ago health insurance was not a big concern, if it even existed. Doctors earned a little more that the rest of the middle class, but they were there for us 24/7. They took care of us, and we loved and respected them. We would have ostracized anyone who sued our doctor. It was a kinder, friendlier world.

There may be an upside to medical education no longer being a good investment: we may get fewer doctors interested in a certain life style and more who are doctors because they want to heal and help people.

Mar 30, 2014 11:58am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BobC2012 wrote:

How many people have really paid? How many were just kicked off their previous plans?

Does anyone really believe this Administration’s numbers? No. Besides Reuters and the NYT that is.

Mar 30, 2014 12:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ready2013 wrote:

democrats believe the healthcare act is a success just because folks signed up…that’s like thinking my yeast rolls will turn out great just because I bought the ingredients.

Mar 30, 2014 12:10pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

4825 wrote:
“It is clear the Democrats already know this law wil nor work as claimed”

Do you have anything to prove that, or are you just making stuff up to please your employers?

4825 wrote:
“The President knows that many people will be pushed out of their plan”

First, people have always been “pushed out of their plan”. Pretending that plans never changed before this year is just another Reoublican lie, trying to manufacture a crisis where there is none. All froth and no substance.

Second, Obama doesn’t make the decision to replace anybodies policy. The insurers do that. That doesn’t stop Republicans, and hence you, blaming it on Obama though…

I know that being a paid poster with a protected account you have to post the Republican party line on every topic, but do you really believe what you post?

Mar 30, 2014 12:17pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ready2013 wrote:

I concur republicans are painting a dim picture of obamacare…it may turn out accurate, may not. Attacking always is not the solution..what goes around comes around.

But the social programs of the 50′s and 60′s have not succeeded as planned…unless we believe more people dependent on the government, more single parent families, etc. a success.

Mar 30, 2014 12:33pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Beaver4 wrote:

I can’t believe that many Republicans representatives would once again allow insurance companies to reject those with serious (and not so serious) health conditions and return to the days of state high risk pools. Before ACA, some states already had high risk pools. California’s high risk medical pool consisted of a waiting list and 75k yearly cap. Those who have experienced later stage cancer would know that 75k would not cover the hospitalization and ongoing treatment. Another concern is the Republican’s plan to increase age eligibility for Medicare to age 67, and to turn over seniors to private insurance. Would private for profit insurance really want to take on those over age 65 and foot the entire bill?

Mar 30, 2014 1:24pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

ready2013: “But the social programs of the 50′s and 60′s have not succeeded as planned…unless we believe more people dependent on the government, more single parent families, etc. a success.”

That’s kind of an odd thing to say, particularly without explaining yourself. You’re measuring the success or failure of a government program, not by the number people it’s helped, but by the fact that it was government doing the helping. You seem to forget that government exists to serve us.

Let me be clear. I’m not at all saying that all the government programs have been perfect. Nothing that comes of man is perfect. There’s always room for improvement. But consider Medicare, for example. Medicare came about because ever increasing numbers of elderly were finding that they couldn’t afford their healthcare. The program has been a huge success. The fact that it’s costing so much is not due to the program itself. It’s because of the way we do healthcare in this country. Conservatives insist everything, including healthcare, has to be market based. If that was really the best way to do healthcare, we wouldn’t have needed Medicare in the first place. We need to do something about the cost of doing healthcare in his country, and it’s not going to be a market based solution.

Social Security has also helped millions of Americans. I don’t know what your political leanings are, but it bothers me to no end that conservatives, in particular, never seem to factor in how many people have been helped by a program in determining a program’s worth. All the arguments I see made against the Affordable Care Act never give credit to the number of people it promises to help, giving people healthcare who otherwise would have none. It’s disturbing. We seem to be the only country that has such a large segment of the population who care so little about others.

Mar 30, 2014 1:25pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

ready2013: “democrats believe the healthcare act is a success just because folks signed up…”

No, we don’t. But we DO acknowledge the reality that it’s a critically important step in the implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Me thinks you protest too much, i.e., your statement is actually reflecting your disappointment that this critically important step has been a success. You were so hoping it wouldn’t be. Now you’re forced to place your hopes for the program’s failure elsewhere. Bear in mind, the further along this program goes and the more people who utilize it, the harder it will be for the Republicans to get rid of. And that won’t be because it’s a dismal failure, at least not the way things are looking so far.

Mar 30, 2014 1:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
TerryinNevada wrote:

It would seem that a law that is designed to: “Help” people gain coverage would not be harmed by making insurance voluntary. I only wish our government would spend half as much time and effort on making health care affordable as they do in guaranteeing insurance companies get to add their 25% to the cost. It shows whose side they’re on.

Mar 30, 2014 1:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

It seems to me that Republicans are engaged in a very despicable and cynical plan… do EVERYTHING they can to undermine, stall, and weaken health care for MILLIONS of Americans in hopes that the backlash would yield them political gains. All they while ironically claiming that THEY are “patriots”. It is a SHAMEFUL and pathetic display No Republicans…. that doesn’t make you “patriots”. It is factions like the Taliban that intentionally seek to make government programs fail for their political gain. Would you call them “patriots”?

Mar 30, 2014 1:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
dd606 wrote:

So now I have friends who abused the crap out themselves for the last three decades, who get insurance cheaper than I do, while mine was raised a third… and I have taken perfect care of myself. Yeah, what a great deal. Hope all the fat a**es who sat on the couch stuffing their face and getting diabetes, are happy. Congratulations… Go out and have yourself a box of donuts to celebrate.

Mar 30, 2014 1:54pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
gangof4 wrote:

If the ACA does not work as planned, a good deal of the blame should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the Republicans who wasted no opportunity to hamstring the central provisions of the bill, deny the government the necessary rollout and software development funds, provide adequate Medicaid insurance to those states that they control, and basically destroy whatever they could in the courts and committees.

In my state you need to pass a criminal background check and hours and hours of classroom training to even counsel applicants about the program. Way to go GOP (and by the way, in what century do you plan to release your health care alternative plan?)!

Mar 30, 2014 1:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

“Democrats should be seeking reelection based on caring for the masses and not stuffing their stockings with big $$ from insurance companies!”
========
Oh puhleeezzzee… Conservatives fought tooth and nail to avoid ANY form of single payer system that would have provided TRUE competition to the existing insurance markets. What we have now with the mandates is a DIRECT result of Conservative resistance to ANY model that would have provide real competition. Now ALL they do is whine about the mandates that THEY created.

Mar 30, 2014 2:00pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

“So now I have friends who abused the crap out themselves for the last three decades, who get insurance cheaper than I do, while mine was raised a third… ”
========
You fail to recognize that you’d be paying for their health care even without the ACA… at least the ACA requires those who can pay something into the system to do so, while giving them options for MUCH CHEAPER preventive care vs. emergency room care. Logically… If I’m going to be paying for your friends lousy heath, I at least want to be assured that they have to help pay for it and that the portion that I pay is for the most cost effective approach.

Mar 30, 2014 2:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
The_Traveler wrote:

dd606 posted: “So now I have friends who abused the crap out themselves for the last three decades, who get insurance cheaper than I do, while mine was raised a third… and I have taken perfect care of myself. Yeah, what a great deal. Hope all the fat a**es who sat on the couch stuffing their face and getting diabetes, are happy. Congratulations… Go out and have yourself a box of donuts to celebrate.”

Bitter much?

What most folks don’t seem to understand is that insurance rates should go down over time. It’s called “competition” and it’s part of “capitalism”. Insurance companies that don’t compete in these new expanded sectors will find themselves put out of business by those that will, and do. If you’re getting a raw deal on insurance then shop around, don’t sit at your keyboard and complain.

I have friends that are now able to get health insurance for the first time in their lives. And they aren’t “donut stuffing couch potatoes” either.

Mar 30, 2014 2:21pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
GeorgeBMac wrote:

Reading the Republican comments is both amazing and enlightening. Essentially all of them are simply untrue, uninformed cheap shots against a system that they have been told by FakeNews to hate…
… They accept whatever the hate mongers on FakeNews tell them and they have told them that the ACA is their enemy — so attack it they must. They have little logical basis for that attack. So, they resort to cheap shots and partial truths…

Mar 30, 2014 2:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mb56 wrote:

“If Massachusetts is the mirror plan to Obamacare, be prepared to pay high premiums and deductibles, since Massachusetts’ working middle class citizens pay THE highest health costs in America……period”
====
Couldn’t help but notice the complete absence of any source for your claim… care to provide it?

Mar 30, 2014 2:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
CSParty wrote:

Bakhtin wrote:
“”"”Do you have anything to prove that, or are you just making stuff up to please your employers? First, people have always been “pushed out of their plan”. Second, Obama doesn’t make the decision to replace anybodies policy.”"”"
WOW! The “Law” is not working as planned and is BILLIONS over the estimate. First, millions were pushed out of their plan because Obamacare and Obama thought they knew better. People were happy with their plans and Obama decided their plan wasn’t good enough. Second, Obama DID make the decision to call those plans against the new Law and the insurers had to drop those plans BECAUSE of Obamacare. It’s paid dolts like you that can’t seem to see the truth.

Mar 30, 2014 3:05pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
RolandoZee wrote:

I am one one of many success stories for Obamacare. ONE FACE OF OBAMACARE. http://youtu.be/J_Miyn_gE4E

Mar 30, 2014 3:11pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

@Bakhtin- Obamacare delay number 38 occurred this week. If that does not tell you that the Democrats do not believe this plan is working then you are dense. What the liberals seem to not understand or at least want to act like they do not understand, is that policy drives behavior. So if I put a policy in place that motivates insurers to drop people off the policies then I have in essence kicked people out of their plan. No difference in outcome and it would not have happened without Obama’s healthcare policy. It is what it is.

Mar 30, 2014 3:11pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
stambo2001 wrote:

“In April of 2010, soon after the law passed, 50 percent of Americans said they were opposed to it, while 39 percent were in favor.

Now, just 26 percent say they are in favor, a drop of 13 percentage points. Forty-three percent say they are opposed, a drop of 7 percentage points since four years ago.

The AP-GfK Poll was conducted March 20-24 using KnowledgePanel, GfK’s probability-based online panel designed to be representative of the U.S. population. It involved online interviews with 1,012 adults and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points for all respondents.” – PBS.org, March 28th, 2014

Come on November, then we can settle this argument once and for all. Obama has lost the support of everyone everywhere except his most brain-addled sycophants.

Mar 30, 2014 3:13pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

TerryInNevada: The idea behind mandatory insurance coverage is the same as that requiring drivers to have insurance. Drivers have to have insurance so they can be responsible when they screw up, pay for the damage the driver causes. Too many people will shirk their responsibility and when it comes time to utilize our healthcare system, they want someone else to pay. Not only is that system unfair for responsible people, but it’s grossly inefficient, because people go to the emergency room for all of their healthcare needs and that’s a wasteful, impractical way of doing healthcare. And those costs get passed on to the rest of us.

But you’re right, our government needs to do something about lowering costs. Here’s the problem with that (and you correctly allude to the heart of the problem.) Money rules America. In healthcare, it’s the insurance industry and the healthcare providers, as well as the pharmaceutical companies. They fought against passage of the ACA because they think of our healthcare system as THEIR healthcare system, there for their profit making. Their primary concern is maximizing their profits. That’s how we got to a place where so many Americans are uncovered and many more have gone broke trying to afford their healthcare. It’s all designed for profit, and that’s a mistake. It doesn’t work. It can’t work.

When Obama and the Democrats started work on healthcare reform, the lobbyists, too, went to work. First they tried to prevent ANYTHING from passing, because the system is exactly where they want it. They don’t want it to change. Obama and the Dems tried to included a Public Option, a government-run insurance option that would only cost as much as such a system cost to run, without the addition of profit. It’s a great way to force insurance companies to lower their premiums. Scared the heck out of the insurance industry. They got all of the Republicans to oppose it (that was the easy part) and focused on peeling off a few Democrats. The final nail in the proverbial coffin was Joe Lieberman’s opposition to the public option, the deciding vote. The Public Option was dropped. But give credit where credit is due. We would have the Public Option if only a few Republicans supported it. Not one did.

So we got what we got. Lowering healthcare costs will be extremely hard because it will require something outside of our market-based system, and anytime something outside of our market-based system is proposed, the Republicans and industry lobbyists cry “SOCIALISM!” We have to get past that bit of stupidity.

Mar 30, 2014 3:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamesChirico wrote:

Amy Newbold should know any medical costs above 9.2% of income will have the government pay the rest of her insurance costs. As a saleswoman in NC it is doubtful she makes enough to not pay more than the 9.2% out of pocket. Her co-pays cannot exceed $6400 at any income level.

What the Dems have failed to do is compare the GOP attacks to reality. The medicare advantage (used by 30% of seniors) has an avg. government subsidy of $88, the prescription drug coverage (used nearly universally by seniors)in Obamacare averages over $300 to a max of $600. While it is true Obamacare will take over 700 billion from providers, it is also true the Ryan budget passed twice by the GOP cuts the same amount and also forces seniors to pay an additional $6000 out of pocket for health costs (CBO). Premiums have gone up significantly but the jury is out as to whether these increases are justified, underestimated, or overestimated. At over 30% avg increase in premiums, I doubt the insurers have shorted themselves, probably overcharged past the 85% paid for care.

Mar 30, 2014 3:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

dd606: “So now I have friends who abused the crap out themselves for the last three decades, who get insurance cheaper than I do, while mine was raised a third… and I have taken perfect care of myself.”

Perhaps you should be more selective in the friends that you choose.

What we’re running up against is the shortcomings of capitalism. We’re discovering that a free market system doesn’t work for everything and doesn’t automatically solve all our problems. We need to learn to think outside the box, to think outside of the free market system, and not be afraid of it. If you want to be afraid of something, just take a good hard look at our healthcare system. That’s much scarier than anything outside of our free market system. We have the most expensive system in the world. That’s what allowing free market dynamics to define our healthcare system has done to us. We’re the only country that hasn’t figured that out yet. We used to lead the world. Now we’re not even smart enough to follow when we should.

Mar 30, 2014 3:56pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
The_Traveler wrote:

carnivalchaos posted: “So we got what we got. Lowering healthcare costs will be extremely hard because it will require something outside of our market-based system, and anytime something outside of our market-based system is proposed, the Republicans and industry lobbyists cry “SOCIALISM!” We have to get past that bit of stupidity.”

Couldn’t agree more.

Unlike most suppliers of goods in a free market, insurance companies don’t compete with each other by lowering prices or raising quality. Instead, they compete by excluding anyone who is likely to cost the insurance company money.

Can you say “pre-existent”? Or how about, “We don’t pay for that prescription medication anymore (even if it’s working really well for you). We pay for this lower cost generic, sorry if you have to take 3 times as many to get the medicinal benefits. True story.

If nothing else, ACA will shake things up in the Insurance and Pharmaceutical sectors. After the dust settles, it will be a “Good Thing” for the average Joe in this country. It’s already happening.

Mar 30, 2014 5:10pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MitchS wrote:

Sadly, even despite its famous transparency, the government has yet to make any true numbers of those enrolled public and of them, how many are MedicAid? Of those signed up, how many have actually paid? And biggest question of all, if, as advertised, 20-30 million Americans didn’t have healthcare insurance before this, how come only 6 million have signed up now? None of this makes any sense, nor does all of the law changing which seems to be taking place week by week.

Mar 30, 2014 5:21pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

@Carnivalchaos- Requiring mandatory health insurance is completely different from auto insurance. There are many options with auto insurance that are NOT available in with health insurance. one can opt not to insure and it costs nothing, not the case with obamacare. One can borrow a vehicle and not buy insurance, not an option with Obamacare. With Obamacare you are penalized if you do not insure, not the case with auto insurance. So try again.

As for “shortcomings of capitalism”, try again on it also. The private insurance market has had government regulations against free and open competition long before Obamacare. Hard to call it a free market when competition was held back with geographical limits. Liberals believe that government can fix everything, when in fact, government screws up most of what it touches. Heath insurance included. Just look at the bubble that was created during the Clinton administration in the mortgage industry that eventually popped and caused the great recession that we saw during the Bush administration. More government regulation screwing up an industry and eventually screwing up the economy. Which by the way, Obama liberal policy has yet to help the economy heal.

Mar 30, 2014 5:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
RD137 wrote:

So did Barry ever get his $1 billion dollar website up and running?…or is everyone still getting 404 errors? My prediction is ZeroCare will end up costing taxpayers trillions when it’s all said and done.

Mar 30, 2014 6:11pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
The_Traveler wrote:

4825 posted:
“As for “shortcomings of capitalism”, try again on it also. The private insurance market has had government regulations against free and open competition long before Obamacare.”

Hmm, that would explain why insurance rates and medical costs have risen 150% over the last 10 years …

“Hard to call it a free market when competition was held back with geographical limits.”

Nonsense statement. It’s a global economy bro.

“Liberals believe that government can fix everything, when in fact, government screws up most of what it touches.”

Uh-huh. Medicare and Social Security, total fails in your book I guess. Federal funding for highway infrastructure, waste water treatment, National Forests, conservation, farm projects, etc, all screwed up by the Feds according to you.

“Just look at the bubble that was created during the Clinton administration in the mortgage industry that eventually popped and caused the great recession that we saw during the Bush administration.”

Twisting facts. The Great Recession started at the END of GW’s admin, caused by lack of Federal oversight in the housing and mortgage markets, 2 unfunded wars, among other things.

“More government regulation screwing up an industry and eventually screwing up the economy. Which by the way, Obama liberal policy has yet to help the economy heal.”

Uh-huh. So that’s why the GDP and economic indicators have been generally “above the line” since 2010. No, it hasn’t skyrocketed, but the gains are there. We hit the lowest numbers in late 2008, early 2009. On whose watch?

Mar 30, 2014 6:36pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

@TheTraveler- Might be a global economy but competition was hampered in the health insurance industry by state regulation. You must not understand what open competition is. So your nonsense statement is, well nonsense.
The concept of Medicare and social security are good but funding will not be there for them in the coming years. Social security would have worked much better if it had been privatized and kept the governments hands away from the money. Government politicians, especially liberal democrats, can’t stand to see money sitting anywhere… They have to get their hands on it and spend it. The democrats are the party of tax and spend. We all knows it.
It was not lack of regulation that caused the mortgage industry bubble, it was the wrong regulation that was put into place during Clinton’s administration. The politicians pushed the banks to loan money to folks that were not qualified in past years to get a mortgage. Yes, it took to the end of Bushes second term to pop but you can trace the cause right back to the 90′s. The war, funded or not, had nothing to do with the economic situation of 2008. Your belief that it did shows your lack of understanding. Read the book “The Financial Crisis and The Free Market Cure” written by John Allison. It will clear up your misconceptions. Then come back and we can talk about it.

Mar 30, 2014 7:40pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
donincardona wrote:

putting sick people back in risk pools is stupid. and leave it to the right to come up with that. no compassion. pathetic.

Mar 30, 2014 8:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

The_Traveler: 4825 is not someone to take too seriously, as I’m sure you’ve surmised. On another thread, in response to him singing the praises of Republicans and denigrating the “Democrat Party”, I asked him what have the Republicans done for the American people, besides tax cuts for the rich and deregulating industries. His response? The Bush tax cuts and the establishment of the EPA. I reminded him that the Bush tax cuts went mostly to the very wealthy and that they came when he was taking us to war, something that no other American President has done before. Other Presidents increase taxes to pay for conducting a war. I also reminded him that Republicans are now trying to abolish the EPA. Why have it when climate change is merely a myth?

I then asked him what they’ve done on the major issues facing Americans today and listed 8 or 10 issues. His response was to say that to answer my question would require him to buy into my premise and he wasn’t buying into my premise…LOL. Premise? What premise? The only premise I could think of that he might be referring to is the premise that our government should be doing ANYTHING to address the problems facing this country and our people. The issues I ran past him were: universal background checks; increasing taxes on millionaires to help balance the budget; healthcare costs; illegal immigration; climate change; advancing renewable energy development and usage; helping the poor out of poverty; job training and job creation; gun violence; education. But he couldn’t tell me what the Republicans have done regarding any of these issues because he didn’t buy into my premise: http://www.reuters.com/article/comments/idUSBREA2Q0VD20140328

It’s frighteningly bizarre that the modern conservative seems to have forgotten what government’s job is. Serve the people? Nonsense. They’re there to protect the interests of the wealthy, of course.

Mar 30, 2014 8:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

4825: I already explained how mandatory health insurance is like mandatory car insurance. No need to repeat myself. I didn’t think it necessary to explain that they weren’t the same thing. “One can borrow a vehicle and not buy insurance, not an option with Obamacare.” True. With Obamacare one can’t borrow a vehicle and have healthcare coverage. You got me there, Einstein. Perhaps I should point out to you that even if you borrow someone’s car the car has to be insured. With car insurance it’s the car that gets insured. With health insurance it’s the human who gets insured. Hope that helps.

Mar 30, 2014 9:01pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
The_Traveler wrote:

4825 posted:
“Might be a global economy but competition was hampered in the health insurance industry by state regulation.”

The original concept for the ACA was a Federal, centrally maintained database and site where folks could select and shop, Not a myriad of state run and regulated sites. However, the Republicans forced the issue by demanding that States regulate their own insurance and maintain their own sites thus leading to a substantial increase in complexity.

“The concept of Medicare and social security are good but funding will not be there for them in the coming years.”

Evidently, the SSA disagrees with you: http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

“… written by John Allison.”

Ah yes, the CEO of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think-tank founded by Charles Koch. Hmm …

Sorry chief, I don’t buy into Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism as Allison has. I find it difficult to agree with someone who believes in opposing government activities including antitrust laws, the minimum wage, public education, and existing child labor laws, just to name a few.

Mar 30, 2014 9:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

Liberals would have you believe that the republicans care only about “The Rich”. They need people to believe this because they know the definition of “The Rich” is ambiguous. Even Obama could not make up his mind during the election what constituted “the rich”. Liberals know that people view the rich as people that earn or have more than they do. If you earn $150,000 per year, you do not view yourself as rich, but someone making $25,000 per year views you as rich. And you view someone earning $500,000 per year as rich. Therefore if the liberals can get people to believe that republicans only care about “the rich” then they have a means to make you believe that Republicans do not care about you, since most people do not view their self as rich.
Another thing is that extreme liberals hate successful people, especially those successful people that disagree with their extreme liberal agenda. That is why you hear such vitriol and disdain from the liberals for folks like David and Charles Koch, or in the case above, John Allison.
Another favorite of the liberals is to try to belittle when they can’t handle the response or if the response throws them. They resort to name calling, either of you, your source or if that does not work, they like to throw out the phrase “the Koch brothers”. Yeah, that always works. They are very predictable and you can read them like a book once you understand their extreme agenda.

Mar 30, 2014 11:05pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

4825: Forget all the generalized, puerile commentary. Why not just explain for us what the Republicans have done lately for the Americans people? Don’t make it complicated. Don’t worry about premises or trick questions. It’s simple. What have they been doing to earn their money? Take a look at the list I provided for ideas. For example, we know a majority of Americans support universal background checks for gun purchases. What are Republicans doing to make THAT happen? A majority of Americans feel that millionaires should pay more in taxes. What are Republicans doing to make THAT happen? What are Republicans doing to lower healthcare costs? What are Republicans doing about illegal immigration? A majority of Americans think the minimum wage should be increased. What are Republicans doing about that? What are Republicans doing about giving Americans more access to job training? What are they doing for us that makes someone like you so enamored with them?

the Koch brothers

Mar 30, 2014 11:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ready2013 wrote:

carnivalchaos
you seem to know a lot about what I think, for as little as I have said regarding this…this is a problem with the lefties, they think they know best for everyone – and like to group those who disagree with them in some nice little category. have I ever said I hope the program fails…not at all… I think it would be great for it to succeed…that way if I find myself out of work I can find healthcare. actually I could have found it without the healthcare act.

one item to keep in mind, health isn’t necessarily dependent on healthcare. lifestyle plays a big part in health.

show me the evidence that we know it will succeed (i.e., based on the results of the previous social programs). Just because a program still exist after several years does not indicate success. Is this a program to help people make it on their own, or rely on the government more? Does it provide subsidies for those you cannot pay?

you say “no we don’t” (claim healthcare is a success just because a lot of folks have signed up)…you obviously have not read all the posts…however, I don’t expect you to…I have not read many myself.

you do need to understand, the government exist because of tax payers. we benefit from the combined affect of taxes. nothing new here…no need to try to convince me of that…but that doesn’t mean everything they do is good…and how do you get rid of an inefficient government program…it will not happen, they dump more money into it, expand it. in capitalism, the business goes away.

Is it helping someone if you increase a person’s dependence on the government? My family obviously missed something. the children moved out and learned to survive on their own.

the liberals want to attack capitalism. capitalism can be cruel. but it motivates, creates incentives, encourages efficiency (and thus conserves resources) – folks (businesses) have to learn how to survive. could you say that capitalism is part of Darwinian philosophy? is it bad or good if it is?

requirement for car insurance and health insurance cannot really be compared. they are created for completely different reasons and motivated by (lobbied for) completely different interests. people get car insurance for a completely different reason than for health insurance.

the liberals argue against capitalism all the time and campaign against greed. Well I have yet to see but a few willing to work for less themselves. Many criticize the greed of the wealthy but suffer from greed and envy themselves.

by the way, if MEDICARE is so great, then why is it that everyone I work for are dreading the day they are FORCED to go on it. The reality of it, its good for some, but why does it have to be forced on others. of course I don’t know the history on this, but sure I will hear it soon.

Mar 30, 2014 11:57pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
The_Traveler wrote:

ready2013, Ok, just throw ‘em all under the bus. All the folks who work part time, because that’s all there is. Folks who have lost jobs due to outsourcing to foreign countries, folks who have been laid off because the company they worked for can’t compete with overseas goods undercutting their profits and have to scale back.

And why is this? Because we are ALL saddled with a DYSFUNCTIONAL CONGRESS. Blame Obama personally if you like, but his job is executive, not legislative. Our elected STATE REPRESENTATIVES are supposed to know what we need. I don’t expect the President to know about the economic microcosm in my little town of 3000. I DO expect my elected CONGRESSMAN to know. I DO expect my elected CONGRESSMAN to be working for the benefit of ALL of us in my state. As the states go, so goes the country.

Currently, I see the REPUBLICAN party as the malefactors in this stupid game of political brinksmanship. They started with McConnell and his “make Obama a one term President” and then the whole “shutdown the ACA” stupidity. I don’t hold the Democrats blameless, but the idiocracy of the GOP is completely beyond the pale. They should be looking for ways to help repair the economy. They should be working on fixing our insane trade deficit, creating incentives to bring back outsourced American jobs.Instead, they’re throwing us all under the bus by not doing their jobs. They are too preoccupied NOW with regaining control of CONGRESS, or should I say regaining POWER, to pay us poor peons any mind.

“By the way, if MEDICARE is so great, then why is it that everyone I work for are dreading the day they are FORCED to go on it.”

No one said Medicare was great. Besides, who likes getting old? Medicare is a bellwether for old age …

Mar 30, 2014 12:26am EDT  --  Report as abuse
carnivalchaos wrote:

ready2013: Don’t confuse criticism of some aspects of capitalism with being opposed to capitalism. I’m a capitalist, but I have problems with the way America is currently practicing capitalism and I don’t believe a free market functions best without regulations. It’s leading to too much inequality, a few big winners and a majority of losers. It rewards and encourages greed, not a good thing.

And obviously leaving healthcare up to the free market system is a bad idea. As I mentioned earlier, every country has figured that out except us. The result is the US has the most expensive healthcare system in the world and the outcomes are average. Millions go broke trying to afford their healthcare and millions exist without adequate healthcare. I know conservatives don’t care if people are going bankrupt trying to pay for their healthcare or that millions of Americans go without adequate healthcare, but a lot of us, I’d venture to guess a majority, DO care.

Mar 30, 2014 12:37am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

4825 wrote:
“@Bakhtin- Obamacare delay number 38 occurred this week. If that does not tell you that the Democrats do not believe this plan is working then you are dense.”

Which proves nothing except that Obama is willing to listen and be flexible, in contrast to Republican “do as we say”.

I see that, once again, when challenged to prove your assertion you resort to abuse. I guess that protected account that paid posters get has some use after all – nobody can make an abuse report against you.

4825 wrote:
“So if I put a policy in place that motivates insurers to drop people off the policies then I have in essence kicked people out of their plan.”

Real-life proves you wrong again. Obamacare has caused no increase in policies being cancelled. It happened just as frequently before Obamacare. I have posted a link proving this before.

As I said… it is just Republican lies to manufacture a crisis.

4825 wrote:
“The concept of Medicare and social security are good but funding will not be there for them in the coming years.”

They are funded for the next 20 years at least. There is no crisis. Republicans are just lying about it.

BTW… I see that you ran away from my question about whether you believe all this generalised, unsupported stuff you are paid to post. Your evasion answers it quite well.

Mar 31, 2014 3:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse

When I watched Obummer on TV a few years back stating that he would take the very best from all the medical systems around the globe – Canada, Germany, Japan and elsewhere, but leave all the problems, people cheered him, and I knew we were sunk.

All these other countries have about the same percentage of GDP tied up in medical care, each focusing on a slightly different feature, since adding features or coverages would be prohibitive beyond practicality. They each had one or more shortcomings citizens complained most about. Each of them also paid about half what we paid under the old system.

Obummer was promising those who believed him that there would be NO shortcomings. A few short years later, it appears there are nothing but shortcomings. Apparently, the more dire the future of Obummercare, the more radical the cry from those who still believe in it and in him.

When fully implemented and fully funded, I predict we’ll be at our lowest economic point ever, paying out over four times any other country for medical care. I guess it will be okay for the country to go down the tubes because of frightened companies providing very few good jobs and shrinking pay, as long as those few people get the medical care they need while everyone else suffers and / or pays for it.

Mar 31, 2014 5:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamesChirico wrote:

Flush the post Flush, full of lies and inaccuracies. About the same % of GDP, ROFLMAO. 17% vs less than 12% for all on the list is not about the same. No system is perfect but every country mentioned has better health care, longer life spans, than here in the US, at a far less cost. Our delivery is based on maximum profit, most countries limit the charges with providers making significantly less. This does cause a drain of specialists in Canada making far more going south. There is no correlation between taxing the well to do giving same to the poor and economic growth. Fact is the Dubya tax cuts were not reinvested here, 50,000 factories closed as trillions more were invested overseas. The overseas investment by Americans during the Dubya years outstripped investment here. Something like the Reagan investment tax credit forced investment to be done here for the tax break, Dubya’s went overseas.

Mar 31, 2014 7:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

@FlushTheToilet1- You are spot on. Obamacare is full of shortcomings.

Mar 31, 2014 7:39am EDT  --  Report as abuse
feudi wrote:

Why should we believe one word of what the Obama Administration says about enrollee number when they haven’t done one thing right yet? And what does it say about any law where the very people who wrote it keep delaying its effects until they are out of office?

Mar 31, 2014 7:50am EDT  --  Report as abuse
feudi wrote:

Why should anyone believe one word about enrollees from an Administration whose goal is now delaying the effects of the very law it wrote till it is out of office?

Mar 31, 2014 7:52am EDT  --  Report as abuse
ready2013 wrote:

carnivalchaos
the ideal of health care is noble. how many folks that are for this system, who state they care for others, paid one cent voluntarily for someone else’s healthcare insurance. they want to help those in need as long as others pay the bill.

I think its a great idea for all to have health care. The way many (probably most) republicans fought this was not beneficial. However, I do not believe the program we have now for the American public is what we need. We do not need the programs of the far left nor the far right.

And we have to be prudent in evaluating and comparing our healthcare system to those in other countries. statistics say a lot (especially when you look at the masses – but not necessarily accurate when you evaluate at the personal level – macro vs. micro stuff). the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence in this area as well.

we’ve been programmed to think greed is bad (and it can be). but what do you think drives people to provide products, goods, and services to people – making a profit, making money. and how do they make a profit, minimizing cost (resources). I don’t disagree with you fully, but do you think it was a moral decision by the team owner when Jackie Robinson became the first black baseball player or when Bear Bryant recruited his first black football player, or do you think it might have been call (more closely/accurately) greed?

and I say all this not because I believe you don’t understand this, but I think many of the other readers need to understand some of this stuff also.

Mar 31, 2014 8:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
SandyC69 wrote:

Today is last day for enrollment, unless you got the recent yet again, written by pen extension from Obama. Guess what, the website went down this morning.

Good luck.

Mar 31, 2014 8:57am EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

@CarnivalChaos- One thing that I have come to realize is that liberals love to tell you what is important to the American people. It does not matter if it is actually true or not. Like in your earlier post, you want to tell me what is important and then puff your chest out and ask me what have Republicans done about this or that “problem”? When I gave you a couple of responses that were pertinent to when Republicans were the majority, your response was: did you have to go back 10 years to find something. Frankly, the Democrats have been in the majority since Obama has been in office so you should be asking the same questions of your Democrat party. If you are truthful with yourself you will find the answer is they have done very little for the average American since they have been in office.

Mar 31, 2014 9:16am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Bakhtin wrote:

@4825

Democrats fixed the Republican recession. Democrats saved the auto industry. Democrats have delivered over four years of steady growth that beats any other advanced country. Democrats have reduced unemployment. That all helps the average American.

What have Republicans done?

Of course you just evade, as Carnival says. You always run away from my questions too, because paid posters are not allowed to actually debate.

I can give you the answer though. Republicans have done nothing to help. They have done the exact opposite and obstructed.They have tried to prevent economic growth.They have tried to prevent falling unemployment. They have tried to prevent the USA from recovering from recession.

Mar 31, 2014 10:23am EDT  --  Report as abuse
4825 wrote:

From Reuters just today: “In a speech that sounded political at times, Yellen, long concerned with the hardships of the unemployed and under-employed, said the U.S. economy remains “considerably short” of the Fed’s goals of maximum sustainable employment and stable inflation at 2 percent.”

But Bakhtin would have us believe the Democrats have “fixed” the economy. Bakhtin, that sounds like a line from a stand up comedy show.

Mar 31, 2014 11:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
gcf1965 wrote:

James says “but every country mentioned has better health care” which is absolutely untrue. Maybe you want to say broader coverage, but the fact that people from around the world come to the US for care when they can’t find it elsewhere says volumes.

James also says “50,000 factories closed”. While many have closed, that figure seems to be more than a slight exaggeration. Any references for this figure?

As for signups, 80% are entitled to subsidies. Now I know most libs are unfamiliar with the origins of government subsidies, thinking that the government must have cash fairies that provide free money to people, but the truth people is that these subsidies are coming from people like me who are working hard, paying our own way and getting hit over and over again to provide more and more for people who have decided that education, learning a useful skill/trade, and good choices in life is for chumps and that it is easier to live off the hard work of others (i.e. me and those like). I for one am sick of this victim/entitlement mentality that villanizes hardworking people as uncaring when those who expend all their efforts at learning how to game the ssytem are rewarded by those seeking to win friends and buy voters with free stuff.

Mar 31, 2014 1:52pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SunnyDaySam wrote:

Bakhtin wrote:
‘Didn’t Republicans say it would never work?’

You and I both know the Republican’t's have been working for failure of everything Obama since day one. It’s been nothing but obstruction from them. That turned this former Independent into an anti-R forever. Not one constructive thing from the GOP. The Party of Nothing has Nothing.

Mar 31, 2014 3:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SunnyDaySam wrote:

If the Republican’ts do defeat the ACA, I’m really looking forward to seeing how they’ll explain to parents with kids in college how they can’t be on their policies anmymore, how people with pre-existing conditions aren’t covered anymore, etc. It’ll be interesting, politically, I mean…

Mar 31, 2014 3:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SunnyDaySam wrote:

btw; WHERE is the Republican’t health plan for the Average American? All those GOPers in the house and Senate have full taxpayer funded insurance, so they sure don’t care.

Mar 31, 2014 3:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
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