Hundreds of thousands watch two popes become saints

Comments (24)
Rich_F wrote:

The Bible says anyone that’s a true believer in The Lord Jesus Christ is a saint. How did the catholic church get it so wrong with their made up stuff?

“To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, SAINTS by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours” – 1 Corinthians 1:2

“ all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” – Romans 1:7

“Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren who are with me greet you. All the saints greet you, especially those of Caesar’s household.” – Philippians 4:1-2

Apr 27, 2014 9:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse
GeoThermal wrote:

Interesting how the Catholic church churns out saints.

Apr 27, 2014 10:12am EDT  --  Report as abuse
PAndrews wrote:

>>How did the catholic church get it so wrong with their made up stuff?

Don’t confuse the Catholic church with Christianity. Mr Pope, what part of “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above” do you not understand?

Apr 27, 2014 10:12am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Naksuthin wrote:

Francis is nothing more than A liberal left leaning socialist Pope!!!!
His comments about homosexuality and abortion and “who am I to judge” are an affront to Catholics.
“Who am I to judge”???
YOU ARE THE POPE. Do your job instead of trying to create class warfare.

Apr 27, 2014 10:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
umkomazi wrote:

… bet this makes all those victims of catholic paedophiles very happy!

Do you need to molest a given number of kids before you get promoted within the catholic church? What is it 100 kids for a cardinal’s badge?

Apr 27, 2014 11:08am EDT  --  Report as abuse
njglea wrote:

Pope Francis, “hailing both as courageous men who withstood the tragedies of the 20th century.” This is ludicrous because the catholic church caused many of the tragedies of history since it’s inception, including the exclusion of women in decision making in the church and in everyday life and the Spanish inquisiton. I’ll look elsewhere for saints.

Apr 27, 2014 11:17am EDT  --  Report as abuse
elotz wrote:

How can two men that ignored the molestation of children and left the culprits unpunished be considered saints?

Apr 27, 2014 11:43am EDT  --  Report as abuse
grassroot wrote:

Sainthood isn’t conferred upon people by other people.
It is conferred on them by God who, once you accept Jesus as your
Saviour by repenting of your sins, and believing that He
died, was resurrected, and now sits at the right hand of God
and now in our intercessor for us in the Heavens.
Since He earned that right by His sacrifice as was ordained
from the founding of the Earth. He alone is our saviour
and gives us the “Comforter, even the Holy Spirit”,
To guide us and dwell in us. And, the priesthood was
abolished at His death as He said, ” It is finished”.
And the curtain in the Temple was ripped from top to the
bottom by, ” An unseen hand.”

Apr 27, 2014 11:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BioStudies wrote:

It’s easy to bash any religion for it’s past crimes. Looking at the current Pope and the way the Catholic Church has been changing over the years I am relieved. Why you ask? Just look over at Islam, “the religion of peace,” where anyone who doesn’t do what the radicals says gets their head cut off and is never condemned by their religious leaders.

Focus on the enemy of the present not the enemy of the past.

Apr 27, 2014 12:34pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hkrieger wrote:

Papal Announcement -
from the series, “Churches ad hoc”

Apr 27, 2014 12:51pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

John XXIII probably deserves it – John Paul II was an old hardliner and a bit of a showboat and was afraid of the “windows” John XXIII opened. It isn’t that hard to take a bullet. I did it to myself once in an episode of severe “spiritual” discomfort and a side order of wanting to find out what my Dad felt when I got shrapnel blasted during world war II. . .

He may have been scared to death. I wasn’t, at least not about he bullet. Other issues were the source of the fear. I knew a kid around here who still walks with one embedded in his arm because he and others were either playing with one or they had a fight over drugs. But you really don’t feel it until the wound starts to swell and heal. Making Popes Saints is too easy and too like the ancient Roman senate that granted the title “Theos” to anyone that sat on the throne. “Sainthood” is the Catholic version of that practice. Do it too often and it becomes meaningless. Calling a few right wing Spanish Catholics they are Catholic saints because they died in a church one Sunday during the Spanish civil war is also stretching the meaning too. I t don’t want to learn about their lives because I suspect one would only find some of the most superstitious, wealth and class snobbish, selfish and doctrinaire people one could imagine. If they had been born 2000 years earlier they could easily have been the people watching the Christians martyred because they were anti-establishment. They could very likely have gloated over the 5000 of Spartacus revolutionaries crucified on the Apian Way. Perhaps a few thousand Tutsi’s should be granted sainthood because they died seeking refuge in churches only to be – in two cases – betrayed by the priest or refused by a frightened nun? What’s the difference between the Tutsis and the Spanish “Martyrs”.

What I see now in Catholic Churches is hardly any mass left. Easter Sunday was a big disappointment when I visited my regular attending old aunt for the weekend. It was all not so memorable music and hardly any beautiful prayers and hardly any of the Mass we had to learn when I stared to go to Church in the early 1950s. They didn’t know about Freud or normal sexual development and in the 50s my mom would make us go to confession and tell them our little sins – playing with oneself was a big bad one and considered “mortal”. If you didn’t confess Mortal sins you went straight to hell if you died. Venial sins got you time in Purgatory where you roasted until you saw the error of your ways. Mortal sins got you an “Our Father” or two to say when you left the box, otherwise they were mostly “venial” sins that got you a few Hail Mary’s. If I didn’t have at least a few sins it doesn’t look like I was trying. Really heavy duty Catholics learn some gruesome self evaluation that make the Chinese red guards look like amateurs of self criticism but it’s usually well within comfort zones. My mother was insistent but not quite the brutal bully the red guards could be. It was never a mob scene but not quite voluntary. .

It sees to be a refuge for people who have to suppress all sorts of unconscious thoughts, and emotions, don’t talk about the modern world at all, are probably on prozac or other mood stabilizers and don’t really want to think about anything. They want their kids to have values but the kids probably know more about life and the world then their parents can imagine and it’s a lot rougher than the parents may realize.

John Paul I (Andreotti) may have been murdered according to a flier I saw on my car window thirty years ago when I walked out of a church because I didn’t want to listen to another strident “right to life” sermon. I knew I was gay (maybe those confesions?) not experienced and not likely to have or cause the problem anyway. But it is too much to have to accept sermons from men who aren’t going to have children telling men and women who might – how to do that. Protestant clergy can take that tone because they tend to have to practice what they preach. I don’t think they tend to preach “right to life” as often. They tend to have more limited budgets? Andreotti – I heard tell – was interested in looking into Vatican finances. Most popes are handled by their courts as are most autocrats usually were. Maybe I’m still too naive? He may have stepped out of line. He should be a saint and martyr if that story is true. But he wasn’t alive long enough to make an impression except on Mario Puzzo.

Mass now seems truncated – filled with less than memorial hymns and hardly any discussion about anything. It has become spiritual “comfort food” because the clergy probably knows the congregation doesn’t really want to here anything they say anyway. They don’t want intellectual disturbance because life gives them more than they can handle now.

But what else can they do? There is hardly anything they can do or say that isn’t also well and even better provided by the social services and the mental health professionals. That may be too flattering to the social and mental health services. There is hardly a point of the theology that doesn’t dissolve on refection or even a cursory understanding of modern science or even history. And this is not a world that is kind to tradition. I didn’t get a Catholic school education because my parents didn’t want that for us. By my old aunt was very bright and both my mother and she had them. They were disciplined. That is something that would have been helpful actually. I got educated, especially in the later years, by inappropriately self-appointed philosophers and gurus, especially during the 60s, who were also shamelessly light on practical knowledge or depth of experience. Modern kids should have radar very finely tuned to pick up on hypocrisy?

Carl Jung once wrote in a loose paraphrase: “it won’t do to try to make yourself more unconscious than you really are”. The Catholics I’ve seen for the past few years all seem to be trying to do that.

I’d be a lot more impressed with the current Pope if he really took the Franciscan vow of poverty. It hurts to be poor. I have a low income but it doesn’t hurt nor is it anywhere near as frightening and dangerous as true poverty. I’ve seen enough show time of TV and in politics. That’s all there is anymore and even the impromptu is anything but, most of the time.

Apr 27, 2014 12:59pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ggesr1812 wrote:

How many little boys were raped while these two bozos were pope? And how did they cover it up like all the others?

Apr 27, 2014 1:41pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JRTerrance wrote:

Humanity’s enemy of the past, present, and probably future is religion, all of it everywhere.

Apr 27, 2014 1:56pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Radek.kow1 wrote:

Thank God for good people like the two popes pronounced saints just now. John Paul II not only helped overthrow Communism, but also Apartheid. Both of them changed the Catholic church dramatically, and effectively led it to counter the so-called civilization of death. No complaints and ill-thinking will devalue their work.

Apr 27, 2014 2:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AngelGreen wrote:

Points to consider: God Alone knows what is in the bottom of hearts. So God Alone should be the One Who decides who is a saint or not. Any human declares another to be a saint should be above the appointee. He should receive revelation from God just like God’s prophets did. Is Pope Francis the one? And with the new two saints should not the Bible be re-written? If the Word of God no. And what does the Qur’an Chapter AlTawbah Line 31 means “They took their rabbis and their popes gods leaving God”.

Apr 27, 2014 2:52pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SmartThinking wrote:

If JPII helped overthrow apartheid, he was helping Communists to take over South Africa. Oh, the irony.

As for the current Papa, history will record him as the first truly non-Catholic pope. Apparently, he’s fine with homosexuality, soon will be on board with divorce, and eventually will even excuse abortion, as long as the pews are filled.

What’s funny is that whacked-out evangelicals like the Assemblies of God are eating the Church’s Third World lunch.

Apr 27, 2014 3:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hawkeye19 wrote:

This is meant to be a money-maker for Rome, to attract clueless followers and their money. Neither “pope” was a Christian and both are in hell, soon to be followed by “Francis” and “Benedict”. No Roman papists are saints, dead or alive.

Apr 27, 2014 3:43pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hawkeye19 wrote:

To read why the popes are in hell, you may want to read this.

Apr 27, 2014 3:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Lovetwo wrote:

Malachi 2
King James Version (KJV)

2 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the Lord which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.

12 The Lord will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the Lord of hosts.

13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.

14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

16 For the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the Lord of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

17 Ye have wearied the Lord with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the Lord, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?

Apr 27, 2014 6:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Lovetwo wrote:

To the survivors, and for those who did not survive the painful experiences of sexual abuse at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church, my thoughts and prayers are with you on this very difficult day.

There is no shame, and there is no guilt on the part of the innocent child victims.

I promise, as from the beginning, justice will be served.

Glory be to God in the highest.


Apr 27, 2014 6:29pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

excuse me: “He” got shrapnel … Freudian, probably not. More like bad typing skills. But children are closer in flesh and blood to both parents than even the parents are to each other. They only occupy each other while the children are made out of them both. That really worries me now. Mom died of Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s in her late 80s. She did not die a “happy death”. I wouldn’t have wished that kind of death on a dog and in some ways people who have pets are so much kinder to them than they are to each other.

Lovetwo – haven’t you learned by now that the Bible is rather like a fortune cookie. Anything you read can be interpreted in a variety of ways and until you put an object with greater specificity into the discussion, or rather that poem, it just looks odd and leaves one guessing.

Are you praying for the RC church or against them? They are no better or worse than any other institution and they have managed to live a very long time. That should tell you something.

Of course, as soon as you get specific, the mind wakes up and starts to reengage in the real world. Prayers and bible passages are a way for the mind to leave the time and place of the real world and float somehow outside of it. But it is only an illusion of transcendence.

The last thing the Priest said Easter Sunday was “pray for immortality.” The large Crucifix that usually occupies the wall over the main altar was sitting on its foot on the floor and in its place above it, was a very large statue of Christ, with arms outstretched, with a great white sash over his shoulders and draped across his body. I think that is a permanent installation.

Is not praying for immortality in the flesh the attitude of the damned or someone still sane? I have no idea what I’d do with all that time? I can’t even pay for my own life now and haven’t got a whole lot to do as my eye fail, my hip aches with arthritis and my ears scream constantly with tinnitis. It isn’t something as a Catholic, when I was still a practicing Catholic, I ever expected anyone meant literally. I always expected the cross to be something one had to endure and a funeral with wake and visitors was something like a triumph and celebration. It was wonderful when so many relatives, and so many others they knew showed themselves. But that was the old days before everyone moved elsewhere. That somehow one always has to leave the flesh on a hook somewhere and move on (or not).

Has the cross been retired? Not in the real world it hasn’t been.

Of course, in the modern world nails might be replaced with adhesives and we just might have to stick around a very long time. It took my Mom five agonizing years to die and she couldn’t remember who she was (we think) by the end of it.

Jesus has the rush job at only a few hours.

Apr 27, 2014 9:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AZ1811 wrote:

No doubt two holy men. But this is action was contrary to all their own rules and speaks to a panic attitude in the Vatican because their numbers are dropping and the hypocricy of the church in its rules etc. is coming back to bite them. One of the richest institutions in the world that hoardes it’s wealth and encourages the poorest of the poor to keep having children they can’t afford because “contraception” is a sin. What a joke. Years ago cremation was a sin, but space ran short so now it’s okay. HYPOCRITS.

Apr 27, 2014 10:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
breezinthru wrote:

I can scarcely believe that Reuters is wasting space on this hot steaming pile of BS.

Apr 27, 2014 11:00pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
paintcan wrote:

@breezithru – They “waste their time” on this “steaming pile” because religion is one of the core concerns of the modern world and probably always will be.

Religion also has a way of steaming up every other pile of “BS” you can name; especially politics and education. Human society started as religion, don’t you know? You really can’t escape it.

Even N. Korea, officially atheist, has taken every religious instinct of the population and deposited it in the state and “Dear Leader”. So even if you think you’ve eradicated it, or escaped it, it really only changes it’s shape and appearance. The Popes are a whole lot better, somehow, than Dear leader and his old atrocity of an aunt. The Popes aren’t committing or ordering murders of drunk Dear Uncles, are they, at least not anymore. The N. Koreans have had the subtlety bred out of them somehow.

If anything, the Churches tend always to be pacifist and value all life. The Catholics officially denounce capital punishment. You can’t look at the cross and somehow like the death penalty. This country still practices it and is one of the few still doing that. I think about the issue because at 63 and on a very low budget, with growing aches, pains and potential medical issues, that are bound to cost more than I ever made in my working life, suicide looks like a more than viable and economical option. Yet, Popes on big budgets aren’t much of a role model. It isn’t Catholic charity keeping me alive. It’s state resources. Dear leaders would gladly hand me the gun, and sometimes that looks like a reasonable offer, especially when the pains kick in and they aren’t nearly as bad as hey are going to get.

@LoveTwo again – Justice will be served regarding child abuse when the families, relatives, and friends of the 95% of victims who were not molested by priests and others in official position of trust, fess up and/or stop. Otherwise it’s fair to say the Catholic Church was pilloried and raped for a crime that the court of public opinion knew better how to commit than those clerics did. And in my experience, the religious tend to be a whole let more demanding in matters of conscience than most anyone else. Could the last decade and a half be called a time when a majority of people were bothered by conscience? It seems fear, revenge and greed rule now and most have pip-squeak little buds of conscience if even that much.

A conscience tends to cramp a lot of people’s career paths.

Apr 28, 2014 9:19am EDT  --  Report as abuse
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