Ukraine rebels ignore Putin call to delay self-rule vote

Comments (43)
kafantaris wrote:

Nothing suspicious about Russia’s withdrawal from the Ukraine border. Vladimir had simply gotten things wrong.
And he is just now coming around.

May 08, 2014 4:07am EDT  --  Report as abuse
alrphfool wrote:

Three countries one union all with separate interests, the game of thrones in a contemporary setting. The US would like to drive a wedge between Russia and Europe,s developing business interests, conflict between them means more power and control of NATO and the softening up of business rivals. Russia gets the clues, a missile shield creeping closer and closer, they here strong words which have become hackneyed. Ukraine, well what can you say, put an apple in their mouth basting regularly while roasting and enjoy the feast. The EU, they just can’t decide for no matter which direction they look it looks bad, but they really like feasts.

May 08, 2014 9:53am EDT  --  Report as abuse
JRTerrance wrote:

When you have to back down from an unpopular decision (unpopular with the world, that is), it’s good to have someone else to shoulder the blame for what happens. So, when you have to appear to want peace, you simply arrange to have your people “refuse” to listen to you and go on with war preparations. It should work well for Putin.

May 08, 2014 10:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Calfri wrote:

The article well points out that this latest development could be Putin’s attempt to distance himself rhetorically from the referendum, which he engineered, in order to try and stave off more sanctions, at least for awhile; all the while fully expecting that the referendum would in fact take place. It wouldn’t be a surprise to find out that this is what Obama really wants, too, as a kind of second best to Russia actually pulling back troops and calling off the referendum, assuming it has the power to do so. This may help the Europeans and Obama ignore the annexation of Eastern Ukraine, and pretend that it is in the hands of “the people,” when it is no such thing. That way the fact that America and Europe are selling out the Ukrainian people can be denied, not convincingly perhaps, but denied nonetheless, based on this pretext. Such a conspiracy theory is consistent with Obama and the Europeans’ record of placing the highest priority on their own ease of conducting business as usual.

May 08, 2014 10:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DellStator wrote:

Win Win for Putin, looks good, then tells the rebels to keep on going, no wait a minute, Putin said he had no control over the rebels, so was he blowing hot air, or is it when was he blowing hot air. Russia is rapidly becoming the “boy who cried wolf”, dishonored it’s treaty with the Ukraine, lied about sending in troops to seize control of the Crimea, says they don’t control the rebels, then they do, no one can trust Russia at all anymore, and that more than any sanction will doom it to economic stagnation for decades until they can rebuild trust with the financial community that long term energy purchases (which Russia has already threatened to halt / arbitrarily raise prices for political reasons) and investments in Russia won’t be risked by the political whims of whatever gov’t is in charge at the moment.

May 08, 2014 10:38am EDT  --  Report as abuse
WiktorProts wrote:

In its unannounced war against Ukraine, Russia relies on covert operations which fall squarely within the definition of “international terrorism” under 18 U.S.C. § 2331.
Specifically, armed operatives of Russia, acting under disguise, attempt to influence the policy of Ukrainian government by intimidation or coercion. They also try to affect the conduct of a government by assassinations and kidnapping, taking by force government buildings, police posts and military bases of Ukraine.
This activity is being conducted on large scale and over prolonged time period, despite condemnation by the USA, G-7, NATO, EU and UN.
Please sign the petition urging the White House to officially designate Russia as “State sponsor of terrorism” – http://wh.gov/lwuL9
Such status of country would outlaw business of American companies with Russia. Even considering of the petition by Senate and President of USA creating great inconvenience Russian authorities.

May 08, 2014 10:44am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Jocomus wrote:

Putin screenplayed again that nobody listen to him and so tried to stay out of this mess with clean hands. Can he ? The rebels will act alone to defy Kiev troops at all outposts, knowing Ukraine will not accept any referendum. Once involved, Putin will never get this out.

May 08, 2014 11:24am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Rich_F wrote:

i didn’t realize so many people had the ability of omniscience. maybe you should use it to win the lottery so you can retire in comfort lol.

May 08, 2014 11:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Greenspan2 wrote:

It looks like Putin set the dogs loose and now he can’t call them back. Or maybe he doesn’t want to and then will send in troops to “save” Russian separatists.

May 08, 2014 11:33am EDT  --  Report as abuse
GreaterGood wrote:

Hey. Nothing suspicious there. You implant your operatives in country and then walk away. You aren’t controlling them, they are acting ‘autonomously’. Wow. I didn’t realize the world was seen as THAT stupid.

May 08, 2014 11:39am EDT  --  Report as abuse
SeniorMoment wrote:

Putin’s words mean absolutely nothing because he has failed to pull back his troops from near Ukraine even though he has again misrepresented that he did so. Also, assuming he has sent Russian agents and special forces into Eastern Ukraine they would already have been instructed before they left Russia to ignore any public statements from Putin and continue with their separation plan.

Any vote that contradicts the public opinion poll taken before the rebellion which was 60% in favor of remaining in Ukraine will be automatically suspect.

May 08, 2014 11:59am EDT  --  Report as abuse
YRaj wrote:

Another slick maneuver by Putin. All scripted. Putin has considerable influence among the rebels as they rely on his support for training and arms.
The referendum is in the interest of Putin so why should he not want it? To appease the West? or To appear to appease the West?

May 08, 2014 12:03pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SeniorMoment wrote:

What I care most about is that if countries break up there national debt of the original country to all public and private lenders be apportioned among the resulting nations according to percentage of total population. It would be extremely unjust for a smaller Ukraine to be burdened by the share of the national debt attributable to autonomous regions. Separatist regions need to carry the burden of their share of the broken up nation’s national debts.

Separating from your nation can never be allowed to be a get out of debt free card or everyone will want to be independent of everyone else.

May 08, 2014 12:12pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

It does not matter what Putin says. It matters what he DOES. He continues to instigate and provoke in Ukraine. He has not withdrawn from the border either. He is meddling in another country’s business and if he really wanted to help, he would bring these ‘pro-russian’ people to Russia, rather than keep excluding them and exploiting them for petty dog fights in another country. It’s 15 miles, Putin. They say they are Russian. Quit delaying, and move them to Russia. It is a big place, you have room.

May 08, 2014 12:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
UScitizentoo wrote:

BRAVO BRAVO, such GRAND THEATRE !!!
>Ukraine rebels spurn Putin
The rebels the rasPutin manages SPURN him?
Why do you say that?
Because rasPutin told you so!
The master of the magical flute and the poisoned cup has spoken and the world believes it. Invade a country and then pretend like you don’t control them! Brilliant. rasPutin will put the Soviet Union II abortion back together again if it takes killing every man and the Russian economy to do it. Such brave Russians.

May 08, 2014 12:26pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
C... wrote:

Moderator, I hope you know what you are doing, not allowing us to communicate with Americans. Because in the modern World any misunderstanding can lead to the destruction of the entire planet, and not only Russia! Think before obediently follow the instructions…

May 08, 2014 12:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
boreal wrote:

Did Big Brother by mistake/mischief turn the Ukrainian Democratization dial too far up to dangerous level in all those self-righteous patriotic people’s head who want to liberate Ukraine [+ Russia’s bountiful natural riches] and start a new Crusade, or what? If the do-gooder fever burns you, you can do good in Africa too. There, they need democracy + liberty + freedom much more than anywhere else on earth and live the folks in Ukraine to iron out their own differences.

May 08, 2014 1:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
C... wrote:

Dear opponents, you should first talk with us, with the Russians! First, Ukraine is a outskirts (Ukraina – okraina…), Ukrainians are Russians living on the edge. Fascists enemies not only the Russians (and Ukrainians, there are Russians living on the edge), but the entire World! Or do you think differently? The power in Ukraine now has usurped the fascists and their sympathisers. Why you don’t want us to hear!? Why do you not want us to understand!? Believe me, it is scary!.. (sorry for transfer machines, I don’t speak English)

May 08, 2014 1:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

The Ukrainian rebels refuse to follow President Putin’s request to postpone the referendum on eastern Ukraine’s political status.

The US and NATO illegally exceeded the UN resolution on Libya and became the Libyan Rebel Air Force instead of setting up a No Fly Zone. This let the US and NATO remove Qaddafi, but some of “our” rebels killed the US ambassador in Bengazi. Should we execute the members of the Obama regime and the leaders of every NATO country for their failure to control the Libyan rebels that they put in power? We know where the incompetent western leaders are, and we have enough ammunition to execute them, so how many will volunteer to squeeze the triggers?

I trained many insurgents to fight for America’s interests, and they don’t always follow US orders during the wars or afterwards. These foreign insurgents have these irrational ideas about fighting for their “freedom” and “independence” after we have given them guns, bullets, and money. How ungrateful of them! They take all of our aid, and they only risk their lives, limbs, and countries to fight wars that we want them to fight, but they don’t always accept every one of our “noble” causes. They act almost like they are human beings. Where did they get these strange delusions? They act almost like these eastern Ukrainians.

May 08, 2014 1:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
beofaction wrote:

Gee, what a surprise! You would have to be dead from the neck up not to see the game Putin is playing! Western liberals are sooo gullible and ignorant!

May 08, 2014 1:29pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
itsmysayokay wrote:

Putin is 100% behind anything to do with pro seperatists without a boubt in my mind. He may not have a say because it is in Ukraine but ultimately if the referendem goes through Putin will definately intervene after the fact!

May 08, 2014 1:54pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
YesNoMaybeSo wrote:

@Rich F , “omniscience”? No special powers needed, just common sense. Get your enemy to relax their guard and think you’re doing one thing, then strike fast and hard(blitz).

May 08, 2014 2:12pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
lub wrote:

When Crimea voted for its independence from Kiev the US/EU didn’t recognize it. When Donetsk and Lugansk vote for their independence this Sunday the US/EU will not recognize it either. So how come the cities in the west of Ukraine were hailed by the US/EU when they declared independence before the overthrow of Yanukovych?

May 08, 2014 2:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
VSNFR60 wrote:

The world does not know where Putin stands. He said he has not used his troops in Crimea, and then he said he has. Is Denis Pushilin acting independently? Again the world does not know. As the vote passes for the Donetsk People’s Republic, where will the division occur? Geographically, guessing Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporizhia to Melitopol. I doubt that it will be the waterway from Kyiv through Cherkasy on down to Kherson. My concern is the aftermath for the people. Are they expecting the – O Russia, for ever youre strong sacred country !, So be they thy treasure in ages to come. – Are they expecting Putin to rescue them from their financial woes? I imagine there are a lot of rich guys in Russia that could care less about the Ukraine, or should I say the tax burden of a populace of an annexed country in civil war. The separatists are doing a pretty good job of wrecking the place now; will it stop after the next government takes office? Glad Obama did not send troops; a lot of money gets funneled out of a treasury during war. Has Putin been able to keep the right people on board?

May 08, 2014 3:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

the guy is sickening

May 08, 2014 3:39pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
gentalman wrote:

One should know what is going on behind the closed doord.Media reports are not enough.
One thing is certain both sides have fighters on the Eucrain land.Otherwise weak Kieve would not gone that far to continue attacks.So also rebels responded despite Putin’s message.
None to be trusted in war propeganda.Certainly it is a civil war started and will lead to open involvement of outsiders.No one cares for innocent bystanding people are dieing.
So called Democracy has proved like remedy is more dangerous than decease.The whole friction started from the backing of EU earlier when the then president had to run away.

May 08, 2014 4:01pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
gentalman wrote:

Earlier both sides should have 50/50 taken the financial load of Eucrain but world leaders have only bias mind and no trust for each other.That include Putin as well as Obama.Now it is the mess like Syria.Another 100000s will die.Who would say they are leaders for good of the people!

May 08, 2014 4:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

@gentalman, the Kremlin’s installation of Yanukovich in the first place, was the problem here. They should not have backed a candidate with money and support, and interjected themselves in this way. It proved to be very problematic as we see.

May 08, 2014 4:17pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pbgd wrote:

Pudding must be furious. First he gets them going, and now they won’t listen to him any more. Poor little Pudding.

May 08, 2014 5:11pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Rilski wrote:

The US should just stop trying to destabilize our region. Russia is not the problem, NATO is Even thought my country is part of it, I support Russia.

May 08, 2014 5:13pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@AlkalineState says “the Kremlin’s installation of Yanukovich in the first place”

So, on what basis do you make this claim? Not saying it isn’t true, but I’d like to know if your claim is just another statement pulled out of thin air, as I feel most other Western claims are.

May 08, 2014 5:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Pro-Russians belong in Russia. It’s 20 km away. Why is Putin keeping them out?

May 08, 2014 5:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
one_some wrote:

They are not rebels, but pure terrorists killing innocent people.

Such a shame that Putin sending his killers to Ukraine to kill people is attending D-Day in France as if he was peacemaker.

May 08, 2014 6:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@AlkalineState wrote: “Pro-Russians belong in Russia. It’s 20 km away. Why is Putin keeping them out?”

Why don’t you ask @xcanada2?? He seems to be one of the ‘kept out’ too :-) !!

May 08, 2014 6:10pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Pulling one battalion of less than a thousand troops from an encampment of 40,000 is laughable. That is no withdrawal.

May 08, 2014 6:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SeniorMoment wrote:

No other power has sent troops onto foreign soil to protect its nationals in place. Others have only done to evacuate their own and sometimes citizens of allies as a temporary measure to protect the evacuation only. Russia needs to own up to the fact it needs more Russians and simply invite its nationals to come back to Russia on easy terms and with appropriate incentives. The low Russian birth rate is a threat to the future of Russia, but then who wants to bring children into a world of political corruption, economic uncertainty and chronic alcoholism?

May 08, 2014 7:25pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
BraveNewWrld wrote:

@VSNFR60

Although in your post you do mention Putin more often than Russia or Ukraine, which is a sure sign of Cerebral Putin Disease (CPD), or Cerebral Putin Syndrome (SPS), things you say and questions you ask seem reasonable. So you have a light case, and not hopeless one like some on this board.

If you really would like to get some insight into questions you ask, you might consider spending 20 bucks and buying one of the memoirs books of Nestor Makhno. They are on amazon, e. g., The Russian Revolution in Ukraine Paperback – March 1, 2009 by Nestor Makhno (Author). Understanding the cultural and historical heritage of people living in those regions of East Ukraine where anti-Kiev rebellion is currently occurring is extremely important for gauging the current situation and predicting possible outcomes. In short, people there are descendants of the anarchist army which has its own Free Republic in 1918-1921. Their motto is “death to anyone who is in the way of our (working people) freedom”. And listening/obeying to state authorities is hardly in their tradition. They would easily ally with anyone helping them achieving what they see as freedom, and they will easily fight to death anybody who would be perceived an enemy of their freedom.
Bottom line: they will not listen neither to directions from Kiev, nor from Washington, nor from Moscow. The only reasonable way is to negotiate with them and work out a deal. Read Makhno. You might begin by looking up on Wikipedia “Makhnovschina”, “Free Territory”, “Revolutionary Insurrection Army of Ukraine”. Note that Makhovists were consistently anti-nationalists, and were fighting against all Ukrainian-nationalist governments.
How I would hope people in our State Department responsible for taking decisions on the current situation would read all the above… If they still can read books, that is.

The world does not know where Putin stands. He said he has not used his troops in Crimea, and then he said he has. Is Denis Pushilin acting independently? Again the world does not know.

May 08, 2014 8:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pbgd wrote:

Of course Putin needs the Eastern Ukraine as a corridor to reach the Crimea. His fleet is stationed at Sewastopol. Right now he must cross the Ukraine just to get there.

May 08, 2014 8:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
DellStator wrote:

It’s a win – win for Russia, we say we don’t control militants, can’t do anything, we do control them, but they won’t obey, we don’t have agents or troops in country, then we do (Crimea – remember that?). Russia will suffer more from the complete lack of faith the world will have in the gov’t, corporations, and business people than any sanctions. Even if you could trust a “high ranking / well placed politically” businessman, no one is going to want the billions invested in a country where the gov’t is utterly faithless.

May 08, 2014 8:30pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
PaulBradley wrote:

@BraveNewWrld wrote: “anti-Kiev rebellion is currently occurring is extremely important for gauging the current situation and predicting possible outcomes. In short, people there are descendants of the anarchist army which has its own Free Republic in 1918-1921.”

You might be right, however, in almost 100 years (approximately 3 generations) there was NO characteristic movement as described by writer Nestor Makhno unless we accept a theory that the behavior trend characterized in his book (and is presented in your comment) is attributed to their DNA, which, by itself is a ‘far-fetched’ theory.

Every country that I think of has a ‘freedom-oriented’ revolutionary background. There was always some sort of resentment of the ruling establishment from which the masses wanted to be free – - not necessarily ‘free’ in all aspect of their lives since the ‘freedom’ per se is very arbitrary word as to its meaning to various causes.

Over all, I think your comment was very good and, I would imagine, very educational to most of the present comment-readers.

May 08, 2014 9:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
WiktorProts wrote:

In its unannounced war against Ukraine, Russia relies on covert operations which fall squarely within the definition of “international terrorism” under 18 U.S.C. § 2331.
Specifically, armed operatives of Russia, acting under disguise, attempt to influence the policy of Ukrainian government by intimidation or coercion. They also try to affect the conduct of a government by assassinations and kidnapping, taking by force government buildings, police posts and military bases of Ukraine.
This activity is being conducted on large scale and over prolonged time period, despite condemnation by the USA, G-7, NATO, EU and UN.
Please sign the petition urging the White House to officially designate Russia as “State sponsor of terrorism” – http://wh.gov/lwuL9
Such status of country would outlaw business of American companies with Russia. Even considering of the petition by Senate and President of USA creating great inconvenience Russian authorities.

May 09, 2014 1:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
MattMarriott wrote:

Each time you click “news” about “NATO v Putin” you are in fact being mocked by the illuminati.
Real Putin, wife and daughters murdered 2010. Fake Putin openly tells that he’s an illuminati agent. 6 examples.

“Putin” as messenger – not forced, just fulfilling the “in plain sight” commandment of the illuminati religion:
1. Putin frees “oligarchs”, alias the illuminati agents in the role of economic hitmen at the time angelic Putin became president, 31 December 1999 (Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky & Co).
Note: Khodorkovsky a free man 2013 was introduced by the illuminati joke “Putin cuts 2 months of Khodorkovsky’s sentence until 2017.

2. “Putin” transfers Russia’s natural resources, starting with non-renewables (oil, gas) to illuminati corporations (BP & Co).

3. “Putin” sells nazis as partners. The more NATO deploys around Russia the more “Putin” and Lavrov repeat that NATO is a partner and there’s nothing to be afraid of.
Reminder: the real Putin reataliated each time NATO tried to deploy closer to its borders.
Note: this is pushed to the limits with these kind of illuminati jokes:
- 2012 “Putin” officially becomes the main weapons supplier of illuminati puppet Assad, following the theater “NATO stops arms sales to Syria”.
Reminder: NATO previously gave to Assad one of the largest chemical arsenals in the world (meant to be used in the agenda “destruction of Israel”, in coordination with the treasonous Israeli gov).
- 2014 “India turns to Russia to help supply arms to Afghan forces”, or in other words: India and Russia puppet govs called to replace the current 110,000 NATO mercenaries in preventing the Kabul puppet regime from collapsing.

4. “Putin” delivers Crimea’s huge arsenal to the fascist Kiev regime, after the Crimea referendum.
This arsenal includes hundreds of tanks used 3 weeks later to bomb the anti-fascist guerrilla and to crush women and elderly trying to stop them with their hands.

=== “Putin” as messenger – forced to tell it “in plain sight”===
5. “Putin” not only refuses to supply arms to the anti-fascists in East Ukraine but goes as far as to call for them to disarm, April 2014.
All this after a few brave men take on the police station of Slavyansk, reacting to the nazi laws issued by the Kiev regime, from banning their language to closing the border with Russia to adult males.

6. “Putin” and nazi-controlled media suppress calls of russian patriots to protect anti-fascists from genocide, starting with a non-fly zone over East Ukraine.
All this after for the first time ever since Hitler’s army surrendered, an UN recognized government of an european state:
- bombs its citizens, first with tanks (May 1, Slaviansk), 3 days later also with helicopters and one day later also with airforce jets.
- burns its citizens inside buildings during pogroms (May 2, Odessa).

May 09, 2014 2:17pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
CanRus wrote:

C… wrote:
“Dear opponents, you should first talk with us, with the Russians!”
That would be a great idea… if it were possible. The problem is, Putin himself doesn’t care what Russians think, only what he wants. Which is why his propaganda machine is so intent on telling Russians what to think. If Russians really want their voices heard, then they first have to break free of their own government’s stranglehold on independant thought. Start by organizing protest marches, for example. Yes, I know they’re illegal in Russia. Many people will get beaten up by the police and arrested. But Russians can’t expect to get their voices heard in other countries if they can’t even do it in their own country! The other obvious solution is to emigrate to a country where free speech is allowed. Many Russians have done that, and will continue doing that… especially now. I certainly can’t blame anyone for wanting more freedom. It’s just sad for the others who stay behind, because they’re becoming an increasingly small minority among sheep who just don’t care or aren’t bright enough to understand what’s really going on.

“Ukrainians are Russians living on the edge.”
No they’re not! – they’re Ukrainians! That’s the type of chauvinistic remark that helps to fuel this conflict. Putin pushes this idea that Ukrainians are actually Russians, and should therefore bow to Russian authority. What he really means is that Ukrainians are second-class Russians, and that they should serve the real Russians. Sadly, many Russians believe this to be true, at least subconciously. It’s this type of thinking that breeds fascism – the concept of “master” and “subordinate” races. Ukrainians have their own cultural identity, language and culture. The USSR collapsed – it’s gone! Though Putin obviously doesn’t accept that fact. And neither do many Russians, unfortunately. I know this from personal experience.

AlkalineState wrote:
“the Kremlin’s installation of Yanukovich in the first place, was the problem here.”
I may be wrong, but I don’t think that’s what happened. Yakunovich was just another corrupt politician who managed to get himself elected. Nothing exceptional there – it happens all the time all over the world. The trouble started when Putin offered Yakunovich $15 billion to reject the EU association agreement that he’d promised to the population, and Yakunovich accepted that bribe.

@MattMarriott
Probably an entertaining post. I stopped reading after “1.” because I don’t really have the time or interest for conspiracy theories. But just wondering – was there a point to your post and is it related to the article?

May 10, 2014 7:18am EDT  --  Report as abuse
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