Ukraine forces attack rebel positions, Putin growls

Comments (71)
playspeed wrote:

It’s funny, how Europe and the US support a new dictator. Let the people do what they want. Government is for people. Not otherwise.

Jun 30, 2014 11:53pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

From the first 3 posts, appears the Kremlin’s propaganda machine is up and running.

Jul 01, 2014 4:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
one_some wrote:

thanks to EU ‘peacemaking’ by Holland and Merkel, Putin used the ceasefire to send many more tanks to rebels as many anticipated.
And sure there will be no sanctions for Russia for that. Peacemakers?
In Russia they say that EU’s ‘useful idiots’ and pacifists always help Russia.
In Gergia EU helped to strike three peace accords, which only helped Putin to grab territories from Georgia (Russia certainly did not abide by any).
So are ‘EU peacemakers’ so stupid to still beleive Russia or do they have their interest in seemingly ‘be stupid’?

Jul 01, 2014 4:58am EDT  --  Report as abuse
lub wrote:

@rayofhope -
Everything you say is true, yet every point you make will be turned around by the Western media. Notice that the bombing civilian casualties are not reported. Instead accusations about Moscow’s involvement in the rebellion are repeated without evidence. The Kiev government was made legitimate simply by a handshake with Obama in Washington. That seems to be enough.. There’s no hope for justice or a fair trial, I’m afraid..

Jul 01, 2014 5:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Dehumanist wrote:

Yeah, complain about Poroshenko being a dictator, not like Putin hasn’t stolen power or enriched his friends in any way. Maybe in Russia the kettles are not quite black…

Jul 01, 2014 5:51am EDT  --  Report as abuse
CanRus wrote:

A smart move by Poroshenko. Putin and his terrorist brigade are obviously not interested in peace – their only desire is to inflict as much damage to Ukraine as they can get away with. Poroshenko has been under a lot of pressure by Western “peacemakers” (corporate lobbyists) not to antagonize Putin, but his first responsibility is to Ukraine and Ukrainians. I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes – he has a tough balancing act to pull off, but seems to be handling it well so far.

smokeymtnblues wrote:
“From the first 3 posts, appears the Kremlin’s propaganda machine is up and running.”
They have a time-zone advantage over real Westerners. :)

lub wrote:
“@rayofhope – Everything you say is true”
Oh boy! He/she/(it?) had already lost it with “Kiev’s Right sector fascist army…”. The rest could only be anti-Ukrainian anti-West anti-anything-not-approved-by-Putin hate propaganda – it was. The usual obvious Putinbot Kremlin-scripted fare. So rubber-stamping it as “nothing but the truth” puts your own comment in the same boat. A few examples…

Rayofhope’s (sic) “peace proposal” – hand Eastern Ukraine over to Putin without a fight or give in to terrorist demands… yeah, I’m sure Putin would love that… he can keep dreaming. Interesting how Rayofhope’s description of the Ukrainian government and Poroshenko strangely ressembles Putin and his nostalgic Kremlin cronies. Not surprising – accusing your enemies of your own crimes is standard Soviet/KGB tactics. We’re not buying it.

“The Kiev government was made legitimate simply by a handshake with Obama in Washington.”
The Kiev government was made legitimate by the will of the Ukrainian people. Putin obviously isn’t interested in what Ukrainians want (as many Russians, sadly) – only what he wants. But that’s mostly irrelevant.

Dehumanist wrote:
“Maybe in Russia the kettles are not quite black…”
In Soviet Russia – Kettle calls pot black. :)

Jul 01, 2014 6:29am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Canela wrote:

Moscow started this insurrection by supplying battle tanks, armored personnel carriers, heavy artillary and other weapons and now they can’t control it – bull excrement.

Jul 01, 2014 7:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Canela wrote:

Moscow started this insurrection by supplying battle tanks, armored personnel carriers, heavy artillary and other weapons and now they can’t control it – bull excrement.

Jul 01, 2014 7:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Radek.kow1 wrote:

Good luck Ukraine. You will get your country back from the Russian idiots that try to mess with your own peace and quiet. The attempt to take over Crimea will force Putin out of his job sooner than later.

Jul 01, 2014 7:24am EDT  --  Report as abuse
lub wrote:

@CanRus –
There is a concept that seems to be out of you reach despite you consider yourself to be smarter then others as a “real Westerner”. It is the right of nations to self determination. Donbass expressed its will in an overwhelming referendum in both regions and its determination by the continuous resistance to the military assault.

Jul 01, 2014 7:28am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Radek.kow1 wrote:

@lub:
It doesn’t matter who votes but who counts the votes. That’s the reality in the mafia and secret service-ridden governance structures of Russia. Your lies won’t hide that fact.

Jul 01, 2014 7:55am EDT  --  Report as abuse
tatania wrote:

Poroshenko has received an ultimatum from the fascist right sector. No need for negotiations with the local population. otherwise Poroshenko will suffer the same fate as Yanukovych. or worse if he didn’t escape from the country in right time

Jul 01, 2014 8:22am EDT  --  Report as abuse
PaperTrails wrote:

Quote: “Poroshenko, just over three weeks in office, is also facing rising anger at home and from the new political establishment over military losses. He is under pressure to switch to more forceful action against the rebels after a ceasefire which many say was used by the rebels to regroup and rearm.”

According to whom? Is this a news reporting article or an opinion piece?

Jul 01, 2014 8:32am EDT  --  Report as abuse
webz13 wrote:

So the russian citizens in Ukraine carrying out the attacks on the government don’t want to negotiate?>? The Ukrainian government shouldn’t even offer negotiations to foreign citizens fighting on the their own territory. Let this rejection of peace talks be a green light to send the non-ukrainians packing back to Russia.

Jul 01, 2014 8:58am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Nagant wrote:

To all that insist that Putin sends in tanks.
The most powerful piece of machinery in the hands of rebels is WWII vintage IS-3 heavy tank, that for decades was a part of a monument. They restored it back to fighting conditions, and installed NSV machine guns in place of missing DShK guns that it was originally equipped with. The cannon condition is reported (unconfirmed) to be useable, and the ammo of more modern D-30 122mm howitzer, still widely used by the Ukrainians, should fit.
They also restored at least one (rumored more) T-34, cannon condition and 85mm ammo availability unknown.
Also they have a bunch of more modern T-64s, captured from Ukrainians.
There’s no proof of Russia supplying rebels, except that Russia owns similar equipment and therefore MIGHT possibly have supplied it. If there was such a proof, it would be all over the news, front and center.

Jul 01, 2014 9:17am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BraveNewWrld wrote:

@CanRus:
you’re quite prolific, my dear “real westerner”. Or are you? Perhaps, you’re an “imaginary” one – CanRus? Here is a brief reply to your persistent nazi-apologetic rumbling.

@CanRus wrote:
In 1943 followers of S. Bandera organized ethnic cleanssibg in Ukraine” What does that have to do with what’s happening now, in 2014? Nearly everybody from that period is dead. Even after 1943, followers of Stalin were carrying out mass murder in Ukraine – should today’s Ukrainians be blamed for that too? Should Germans be hated forever too?

Yes, and not so much hated as discouraged and legally prosecuted. But only and exclusively those Germans, and not only Germans, but other nationals, too, who would be marching under Hitler’s portraits, shouting Hitler’s slogans and erecting monuments to their fallen hero Adolf. Or, Stephane Bandera to that matter. Don’t you think so?

Jul 01, 2014 9:42am EDT  --  Report as abuse
BraveNewWrld wrote:

Here is the most important question to be asked and answered by all you apologists of these mass killings. Is Ukrainian Army, under the order of president Poroshenko, killing Ukraine’s own people? Are they killing tens, hundreds, or thousands of their own people? Are they deploying multiple launchers against civilian population in cities? It is interesting to note that even Assad did not do that.

Finally, the most important question: should they be stopped?

Jul 01, 2014 9:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
tatania wrote:

actually Porosenko and the co are not able to stop the war. even declared 10 days truce was not absolute. but to stop the war it means to follow the terms of the rebels, and if Protsenko not going to provide their right they will never be his ally

Jul 01, 2014 10:09am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Alekhin wrote:

Petro, lets attack russian Crimea, because bombing your own people its so uneffective!)

Tomorrow you will be like Saakashvili – forgotten US-puppy.

Jul 01, 2014 10:15am EDT  --  Report as abuse

The ignorant Russians have caused far more trouble in the past 100 year than they could possibly be worth. Let’s nuke them out of existence. Shouldn’t take more than 2 minutes. Short of that, it is high time the Ukrainians ethnically cleansed itself of Russians once in for all.

Jul 01, 2014 10:46am EDT  --  Report as abuse
lub wrote:

@Nagant
“The most powerful piece of machinery in the hands of rebels is WWII vintage IS-3 heavy tank, that for decades was a part of a monument.”

plus they have this powerful song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8uSxVQyEZg

Jul 01, 2014 11:29am EDT  --  Report as abuse

I emphatically agree with all of the below comments!

Jul 01, 2014 11:45am EDT  --  Report as abuse
saml220 wrote:

27 Ukrainian servicemen had been killed and 69 wounded since the start of the ceasefire.

Thanks for the “road of Peace” Mr. Putin

Jul 01, 2014 11:50am EDT  --  Report as abuse
mjp1958 wrote:

The Russian armed and financed militants in eastern Ukraine have been warned. If they are not going to stop fighting, and won’t return to Russia, they should be killed or imprisoned by the Ukrainian military.

Surely, Russian dictator Vladimir Putin would do the very same thing if he faced this situation in Russia.

Jul 01, 2014 12:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
mjp1958 wrote:

By the looks of this page, Putin is paying a lot of Russians to post propaganda and lies about Ukraine. Those Russians are really expert liars! They have had centuries of practice, and liar Putin’s leadership!

Jul 01, 2014 12:06pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
bryanric wrote:

smokeymtnblues wrote: “From the first 3 posts, appears the Kremlin’s propaganda machine is up and running.”

You’ve got that right. And it hasn’t stopped.

Jul 01, 2014 12:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Warhawk wrote:

The EU should really escalate the sanctions against Russia for providing military support to the terrorists who are causing disunity in Ukraine. Plus Russia should pay a price for the annexation of Crimea. I think the US approach towards this crisis was a little too weak, but hopefully it’s a good lesson to everyone in NATO that Russians can’t be trusted. Russia’s economy offers no benefits to anyone, that’s why no one want’s to join them. It is only through intimidation and gas/oil delivery manipulation that Russia has any leverage at all in the region. If the EU or US were as bad as some say there would be no issue with the illegal immigration – something that’s totally foreign to Russia, since it’s not a country where one has opportunity to prosper (unless they are KGB members).

Jul 01, 2014 12:09pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

I think Pidro’s Nazi army need more ammunition – there is way too many civilians there, not all have left to seek shelter in Russia yet – far from it! Quick call the US and Nato they have lots to sell (in your case loam with interest) . I know from Leningrad’s forgotten story, encircling a town for a long time and shelling especially in winter works well!

When will we see Pirdo on a tank himself wearing a mask – shouting its all Russian fault!

Jul 01, 2014 12:12pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Are the Donbas people threatening to advance on Kiev? Why is there a need to declare war on them and aimlessly shell civilian population? Maybe its worth talking to them – this time without all the “good” leaders or Europe or Russia listening in. Is that not worth a try?

Jul 01, 2014 12:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@mjp1958 wrote:
“By the looks of this page, Putin is paying a lot of Russians to post propaganda and lies about Ukraine. Those Russians are really expert liars! They have had centuries of practice, and liar Putin’s leadership!”

Now, obviously mjp1958 doesn’t know anything about what he is talking about. But, he is an excellent example of the type of anti-Russia and anti-Putin propaganda which Western people are being subjected to.

But, it is also fairly obvious that the Ukraine-Russia problem is being orchestrated by the US: the visits from Nuland, McCain, CIA Brennan, Kerry, Joe Biden, and son, and their entourages. The journey of Yats to our Leader’s handshake.

It is also fairly obvious why this is all happening: the break up the relationship of EU and Russia, in order to keep EU firmly in the US fold. (Obviously our huge frack-gas “bonanza” will end up beggaring EU and us Americans to boot.)

The callowness and callousness of the murderous people who run our country is to me, overwhelming.

Jul 01, 2014 12:41pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Who exactly and why is killing whom in this currently knows as Ukraine land? Don’t really get it…Can it be stopped? Who is the best person to stop it?

Jul 01, 2014 12:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

BTW, for those interested in the Russian point of view, and more on the EU/Russia entreaties to Poroshenko to continue seeking peace, and the sensibleness of Putin, check out:
http://rt.com/news/169628-putin-ukraine-west-barracks/

It could be that Putin is going to win this propaganda fight with the US simply because he is (again) on the side of righteousness and humanity. It is quite possible that Russia and Putin learned something from the failures of the SU. Clearly we got nothing except unbounded hubris, sense of self-entitlement, and “exceptionalism”.

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
“American exceptionalism is a traditional belief – or theory – that the United States is qualitatively different from other nation states.”

To think, our Leader would actually mouth such shameful nonsense: he might even be worse than George Bush. Obviously I am not a party supporter, particularly of George Bush Jr., but at least his lack of guile compared to our present leader was refreshing.

“I believe in American exceptionalism with all my heart” sounds to me like something akin to the sentiments of Nazi Germany.

And, to help remember what the US is fooling around with, yes, I will also second lub’s recommendation to get a Russian view on WWII:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8uSxVQyEZg

Jul 01, 2014 1:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Seems like the pro-Russia separatists should just end their failed power grab and emigrate to Russia — and let the Ukranians can re-open their shops and have a coffee on the town square, again. Back to normal. Problem solved.

Jul 01, 2014 1:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Mandingo wrote:

Does Putin still pose shirtless for the magazines and newspapers to feed the Russian appetite for “strongmen”?
A country that buys that stuff is not very self-reflective.

SAM’s (Surface to Air Missiles) are very, very hard to get as in the wrong hands they can bring down civilian planes anywhere in the world. That is why despite cries for them, the west has not given Arab Rebels in Syria any of them against Assad and his bombing of civilians.

Putin has not had the same qualms handing them to the Russian separatists. Interesting.

Jul 01, 2014 1:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@Mandingo:

Many people like to exhibit their Putin-hate in connection with his shirtlessnes. They seem to imply Putin is unique in this exhibitionism.

Check
http://virtualpen.typepad.com/mike_oldhams_virtual_pen/2009/08/battle-of-the-beefcake.html

My favourite of past times was Pierre Trudeau and his diving exploits.
http://socialstudies.nelson.com/history/studweblinks_11_splash.html

Jul 01, 2014 1:34pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
UkieCanuck wrote:

Please stop calling the terrorists in eastern Ukraine “separatists” or “pro-russian”. They are russian operatives that are continuously supplied with firepower by russia. This has been proven multiple times. Russian special forces operatives are the leaders and there are paid terrorists fighting. Very few local russians.
This is a war that russia (better name “Moscovia”) has started and is fueling. Putin speaks with forked tongue and the western media reports it as truth. STOP already. say it as it is: Russia has attacked Ukraine!

Jul 01, 2014 2:24pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
sarkozyrocks wrote:

Our actions in Ukraine are despicable and shameful.

Jul 01, 2014 2:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SixthRomeo wrote:

All this because Putin wants to bring back all the stinking Commie Pinko. They NEVER did anything good for the world but ONLY for the upper echelon of the Communist Party while they stole from the membership and from as much of the world as they possibly can. Russia has been a failure since the Revolution, they destroyed everything good and worshipped nothing more than the ego.

Jul 01, 2014 2:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

Poroshenko should have used the cease fire to send representatives to negotiate with the rebels and achieve an acceptable compromise, but he chose unconditional surrender like Assad of Syria. His first problem is that Kiev’s army had 6,000 effectives out of 41,000 on payrolls. (35,000 paychecks probably went to generals, defense ministry officials, and Yanukovich, and the generals and officials remain.) Kiev hastily conscripted troops, gave them one month of training and sent them east. Reuters photos reveal them to be warm bodies in uniforms who carry weapons, but they are not soldiers. I have made numerous comments that explain their mistakes in detail.

His next problem is EU austerity that raises consumer gas prices 50% while wages are frozen, and the first bills have arrived. The value of Ukraines currency has fallen 42.3%, so imported goods are higher while wages are frozen. 40% higher gas on August 1 for businesses and utilities will give 40% higher consumer electricity and higher store prices while wages are frozen. Taxes rise at the end of the year while wages are frozen. Consumer gas prices will rise again in 2015 while wages will remain frozen. The 40+% drop in Ukraine’s currency will let other countries buy and remove Ukraine’s products for less, so Kiev’s citizens will have fewer goods to buy with their devalued money. Poroshenko has let the EU wage this economic war in a nation whose people illegally overthrew their prior democratically elected president in February, so Poroshenko may become the next democratically elected president to be overthrown illegally.

Another problem is legality. Yanukovich was a legal, democratically
elected president who was illegally forced from Kiev by unelected mobs. He sent Putin a legal written request to intervene militarily to restore order that Putin granted in Crimea although events did not go as planned by Yanukovich. The further problem is that Russia may let Assad destroy as many Syrians as necessary to restore order, but Moscow may not allow the killings of Russians and Russian speakers on the same scale. Add to that the dubious legality of Poroshenko’s election that should not have taken place until 2015, when Yanukovich’s term expired, and Ukrainians with the US and EU have prepared a legal basis for Russian intervention under the new “responsibility to protect” rule of the UN Security Council.

Finally, the economics support Russia, with its ally China. The US and EU mechanized economies and mechanized militaries depend on oil and gas. Russia is the world’s biggest oil and gas station that sits next to the world’s biggest car market and industrial production facilities in China. At the same time, the IS Caliphate threatens the oil and gas of the Middle East and the Arabian Peninsula that drives up prices to over $100 per barrel and leads to stagnation, recession, and possible depression in the US and EU. China and Russia have built new markets in the Far East, Asia, India, and Africa that grow faster than the US and EU. The US had -2.9% GDP growth in 1Q 2014 and the EU had -0.3%. 2Q US housing starts are down 7.4%, car recalls are over 20 million, drought raises food prices, and ACA takes $400 billion per year (over 2% of GDP) from US consumers. Ukraine owes $55 billion to the EU, and private Ukraine banks owe $250 billion to private EU banks. Ukraine’s devalued currency means Ukraine must pay the normal equivalent of $78 billion to the EU and private banks must pay $355 billion to private EU banks. The US and EU are set to go into recessions that should last until 4Q 2014, but these could become multi-year depressions if the US and EU continue to impose economic difficulties on themselves. Sanctions cut trade for the countries imposing them as well as the countries on which they are imposed. For example, the US imposes sanctions on 50% of the world while China trades with 100% of the world. The US has trade deficits of $500 billion per year while China has amassed nearly $4 trillion in foreign currency reserves through its international trade. Russia has gained nearly $500 billion in forex reserves. The US and EU, including NATO, are destroying themselves economically over the Ukrainian issue. Since each nation’s economy pays for its military forces and develops and pays for the technological tools of its military forces, the US and EU are destroying themselves economically and militarily.

As a US citizen and businessman who served in the US military, I have presented reasons why the US and EU (NATO) should avoid involvement in the Ukrainain crisis that does not involve members of NATO.

Jul 01, 2014 3:04pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ghhut wrote:

“But EU diplomats said in Brussels that EU governments would not immediately take action over new sanctions on Russia because the situation on the ground was confused following the renewal of fighting.”

Yeah right, like they were going to go forward with the sanctions if the fighting did not resume. The EU has been feeding Ukraine the promises of sanctions since March. In the meantime Russia has annexed Crimea and is trying to do the same in the East. Ukraine can only rely on itself, because if they listen to the EU they will loose even more territory, like what happened to Georgia.

Jul 01, 2014 3:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
one_some wrote:

Russia openly recruits rebels in Russia on Russian social network VK. This could not be done without permission from the Russian authorities who control all social networks.

Jul 01, 2014 3:39pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ghhut wrote:

Dear carlmartel, As a “US citizen who served in the US military” do you suggest the US should go back on its international obligations? In 1994 Ukraine has given up it nuclear weapons in exchange for the US guarantees of it territorial integrity. It is not the questions of “should US get involved or not?” The US is already involved since 1994 and now has to fulfill its side of the bargain.

Jul 01, 2014 3:40pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
beofaction wrote:

quatra wrote:

I really hope Putin crushes the Ukraine fast. It shouldn’t take more than 2 days. Preferably in the weekend so nobody in the West has any chance to interfere.
As we said in the 60s in Europe “Hopefully the Chinese will attack”.
For ignorant Americans, to get from China to Europe you’ll have to defeat the Russians (then Soviets) first.
As a European I find it difficult to find anything made in the US nowadays

This ignorant American asks, “Why would we want to “get from China to Europe?” I hate to tell you, oh brilliant European, but Europe only exists today because of “ignorant American” blood! You fools play at being worldly and important, but you are nothing without us. Your economies only exist because of American protection. All of you put together can’t defend yourselves against anyone, so you pretend that in this world it doesn’t matter. I can’t stand what Obama is doing to the U.S., but maybe it’s for the best. Maybe we SHOULD become isolationist like we were in the early 1900s. Then after world conflagration you fools will figure out how good you had it!

Jul 01, 2014 3:42pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
jrpardinas wrote:

NATO is testing Russian resolve in East Ukraine just as Hitle and Mussolini tested the resolv of Western democracies during the Spanish Civil War.

If things go as NATO hopes there, it’s not hard to imagine that Russi itself will come next.

Jul 01, 2014 3:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

@Mandingo

Reuters published an article on April 16 about the surrender of an airborne armored unit of Kiev’s army at Slaviansk. The TO&E of that unit would have included air defense missiles. At Kramatorksk, another unit of the 25th Brigade split with part joining rebels and part, including its artillery, remaining loyal. An educated estimate of the numbers is 12 to 24, and 4 have been used, so the rebels have 8 to 20 remaining. 3 have been used at Slaviansk and 1 at Luhansk in June, 2 months after the surrender at Slaviansk, so rebels have redistributed some of them. No country with an airline, such as Russia’s Aeroflot, wants MANPADs, MAN Portable Air Defense missiles, in unauthorized hands, but Kiev continues to send aircraft to Slaviansk despite their knowledge of the surrender in April. You can check the Kiev unit’s TO&E; go to Google; type in TO&E Ukraine Army; and go to the 25th Airborne Armored Brigade. It shows an air defense artillery battalion that would have been divided into sections to protect each armored unit going near the Russian border because Russia has an air force and helicopter gunships.

Jul 01, 2014 3:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pyradius wrote:

42 comments and only 2 references to Nazis and 3 references to fascists? You guys are slipping!

Best of luck Poroshenko, you showed considerable restraint during the cease-fire, perhaps too much restraint. It’s time to root out the Putin-sponsored terrorists and get back to the business of rebuilding your country, away from the filthy corruption of Russia.

Jul 01, 2014 4:14pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
littleredtop wrote:

Putin had better watch out. Soros has his eye on him.

Jul 01, 2014 4:29pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
littleredtop wrote:

Based on the comments that I read here, no one knows of the role George Soros continues to play in this civil war. Readers are all over the map pointing fingers and name calling but no one recognizes the true enemy.

Jul 01, 2014 4:35pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
bravo-six wrote:

I really enjoy how some commenters on here proclaim Putin to be a sensible, dimplomatic and reasonable person.

Yet they seem to forget the moscow theater crisis, and how rationally Putin had responded to terrorists by putting to death 130 of HIS OWN PEOPLE due to the gas they pumped into the theater.

Oh yeah, and let’s not forget his response to Beslan either. Dont be foolish to think that Putin is a sensible man who would put dimplomacy before escaltion of force, from these two incidents alone, its clear to see he views Russian lives as expendable.

If he can do that to his own citizens, what exactly do you think he would do to any foreigners if they were in his way?

Jul 01, 2014 4:43pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

The people of the United States of America know what the Independence War is, and we are fortunate to celebrate our Independence Day this week again. That’s why the United States of America fully support this historic struggle of the Ukrainian people for their independence from the corrupted semi-soviet Putin’s regime.
Long live Independent Ukraine!

Jul 01, 2014 5:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@carlmartel:

Excellent summary of what seems likely to me to be the real situation.

The neocons and other directors of our country seem to have almost no care at all about Americans, and the US’s future. Their hubris is astounding to me.

Jul 01, 2014 5:10pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

@ghhut

Ukraine has made itself more complicated than the 1994 agreement foresaw. Unelected Kiev mobs forced the legally and democratically elected president, Viktor Yanukovich, to flee Kiev for Russia where he sent a legal, written request for Russian intervention to restore order that Putin granted in Crimea whose political leaders organized an election on a resolution to join Russia that passed with 77% in favor, 3% opposed, and 20% abstaining. UN monitors reported that the election was free and fair. No one expected in 1994 that Ukraine’s leaders would so badly mismanage their politics and economics that some Ukrainians would vote to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia. Under the circumstances, I would accept the majority votes of Ukrainians who want to change nations and shift their territory to Russia. If you look at the economic arguments I presented, the current outcome and the likely future outcomes are not surprises. The leaders of countries need to improve themselves or they may find that their people no longer want them to rule even if they need to attach themselves and their territories to other countries to escape from incompetent and corrupt leadership.

Jul 01, 2014 5:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AlkalineState wrote:

Let Putin growl. It’s not his country. Besides, what would Putin do if separatist rebels in Chechnya shot down a russian military transport plane killing 50 soldiers. Do you think he would be in a peace-talking mood? Maybe just hug it out?

This whole thing is stupid. Putin has zero credibility on peace when he’s stirring this whole thing. He’s the current joke of the world.

Jul 01, 2014 5:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Nagant wrote:

@xcanada2 wrote:
“I will also second lub’s recommendation to get a Russian view on WWII:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8uSxVQyEZg”

Yeah, it’s good, but I like that one even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzFVF8Exp4M

Jul 01, 2014 5:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
ccharles wrote:

It is ILLEGAL to use military troops against your own normal people, not militarized. This guy dosnt get that, and that the so called “free world” supports this, is this to become the new norm? There is no rules or laws to rien these people in. Sad

I do expect at some point Putin will have to step in and slap the dogg stuffings out of the ukrainians, and they will have it coming to them for what they are doing and have done in the past few months.

Jul 01, 2014 5:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hohohohoho wrote:

The good news is that the terrorist SU-25 attack aircraft was damaged and had to crash land so it won’t be able to participate in Poroshenko’s ethnic cleansing any further. The same goes for the helicopter shot down by the anti fascists self defence fighters.

Jul 01, 2014 6:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
one_some wrote:

Today the only remaining Russian opposition TV channel ‘TV Rain’ was airing a Russian lawyer who was himself a volunteer fighter in Bosnia many years ago.
He said that Putin fully controls Eastern Ukrainian rebels’ through infiltrating rebels’ leaders.

Many rebels’ leaders are from Moscow: so called ‘prime-minister’ Boroday is a Moscovite who came to Donetsk after the fighting already began. Another – leader of Slavyansk rebels – Strelkov – is also from Moscow. They were not living in these regions before the fighting began.

http://tvrain.ru/articles/lobkov_bez_podpitki_iz_rossii_piratskie_respubliki_dolgo_ne_prozhivut_budet_li_vojna_na_vostoke_ukrainy_pohozha_na_chechnju_i_bosniju_chast_1-371399/

Jul 01, 2014 7:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

It’s amusing to me that nobody considers the Ukrainian military as People or residents of Ukraine. These brave men are patriots and deserve respect. Perhaps the patriotic people of eastern Ukraine should support them or stop whining when they are under attack. It is a hell of a lot easier to flee to a country you support rather than bring the country to you. Lets watch these people learn things the hard way, when Poroshenko open the door they spat in his face. You reap what you sew in this life.

Jul 01, 2014 7:28pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Hahahappy wrote:

Hopefully The Germans and France will change their stance and put pressure on Kiev and the US to back off before this get out of hand.

Jul 01, 2014 7:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

@xcanada2

I do the best I can. Some people don’t see that I don’t support Putin or Poroshenko. I support the USA first, foremost, and always. US and EU (NATO) intervention is stupid for the reasons I outlined. I don’t want the US and NATO to destroy themselves. Unfortunately, the US has “patriotic traitors” who think they can cheerlead America to victory when they are actually urging the US to destroy itself. Contrary to the delusions of some people, we don’t have infinite resources, and things won’t always go the way we want them to go.

Jul 01, 2014 7:38pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
hohohohoho wrote:

Poroshenko announced the end of the cease-fire late Monday. By early Tuesday, the military had made artillery and airstrikes against separatist positions, Defence Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmytrashkovsky told.

He said one service member was killed and 17 wounded in the previous 24 hours, and that a military jet was damaged.
That’s on top of the captured national guards headquarters in Donetsk and downed helicopter. Most of casualties are amongst national guards who mostly consist of the infamous ultra nationalist right sector storm troopers because regular military aren’t to kin to fight against Ukrainians either in east or west.

Jul 01, 2014 8:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SashaRush wrote:

Definition of terrorism from Google:
“the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims”

The media keeps referring to east Ukraine KPR & DPR as terrorists? so by the above definition, aren’t the terrorists the ones who seized power in Kiev? The Right Sector – who terrorized citizens who spoke Russian? and uploaded it to Youtube? – using video’s to outline ‘this will happen to you’ isn’t this “unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims” … how is the KPR & DPR terrorists? they stay on their territory, defending their right not to be controlled by actual terrorists. Like how twisted is all this name calling? Actual terrorist are not terrorists but lets label the people defending themselves terrorists and lets bomb them with phosphate and shell the crap out of both cities, because they are terrorists?!?!

Jul 01, 2014 8:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
111Dave111 wrote:

Common Sense: President Poroshenko put in place a seven-day ceasefire; he abided by it, but the fact remains that the separatists, many of them weren’t adhering to it, and he has a right to defend his country.

Putin is a loser.

Jul 01, 2014 9:14pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@Anti-samaritan wrote: “when Poroshenko open the door they spat in his face”

Actually, Poroshenko didn’t really “open the door”. Rather he called for the “terrorists and thugs” to lay down their arms. His government would then decide who was to go to jail or worse, and who wasn’t. He has threatened this all along. Of course the Eastern Ukrainians simply and unequivocally cannot trust this approach.

Other countries live with dual official languages to ensure their cohesiveness. Canada with English/French, although are there are many fewer ethnic French Canadians than English. Similarly, Belgium. About two-thirds and Ukrainians speak Russian, and there is much less difference between Ukraine and Russian than between English and French. The problem in Ukraine is either a manufactured problem by US/EU, or a very stupid problem and the US should get its Ukrainian operatives to really compromise on.

But, one of the very first moves by Kiev after the putch was to state that Russian would not be an official language of Ukraine. This made it pretty clear what the attitude of Kiev/US was, and clearly it was not to accommodate their Eastern members. Actually, we have quite clearly seen the hate of ethnic Russian Ukrainians by substantial numbers of Western Ukrainians. Ukraine’s problems were brought to a head with the help of US directors: Nuland, McCain, Kerry, Biden, Brennen, and entourages. With little doubt in my mind, Poroshenko is a US stooge, bought out with promises of safety of his money and a spot anywhere in the world that he might want, if things get too hot for him (which seems likely).

Ukrainians appear to be simply patsies to the hegemonic games of the US Administration, and whomever really runs them. US doesn’t want EU getting along with Russia, that is clear. Our oil and gas people have their plans for the fracking gas, and certainly many other US miscreants have their eye on Russia and the EU and what they can get out of them (Wall Street and London City oligarchs, the MITI, etc.). The only hope for calming the Ukraine problem seems to be EU-Russia end running the US, and somehow controlling or removing Poroshenko.

Sorry Ukraine people, you are caught in the middle. Just like the Iraqis, and the Syrians, and the Libyans, and the Kosovo people and Serbs, and the Afghans, and the Vietnamese, and the Sudanese, and the Somalis, and the Cubans, and the Venezuelans, and the….

And we Americans blissfully keep our heads buried in the ground: See no evil, hear no evil! Nope, none around here!

Jul 01, 2014 9:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
lkofenglish wrote:

This Poroshenko dude is no slouch. Wonder if he’ll attack Rostov on the Don in order to get his Crimea back?

I think Europe is secretly cheering this on as they have a huge unemployment problem and sending off “some of the boys to get some quality Eastern Front time” might just be what they’re itching for out that way. Sweden had a whole empire out that way back in the day…so Poopie Pants might want to watch his flank here.
Gotta watch out for those crafty French too. “They’ll sell you your ships and then hit you win a billion dollar maintenance fee because the didn’t install the engines right.”

The English and the Charge of the Light Brigade. Need i say more? Good luck taking a Challenger Tank out of action. I think the Germans will be content just to finance the whole thing this go around. “Baku is right around the corner.” Stick ten thousand US Marines in the Republic of Georgia “on a fact finding mission.” They could go North or South actually.

Jul 01, 2014 12:00am EDT  --  Report as abuse
savhanna wrote:

PUTIN IS A MADMAN! And for this reason he is as dangerous, if not more so than Terrorists or Jihadist! In his attempts to re-conquer Soviet lands, and change borders, that have not been changed since WWII, this “dictator” has lied and knived his way around words in support of his actions, actions that should be deemed by International law- – illegal! Since the Syrian Civil war, where he backs the Regime, he has stated how no country should interfere with this countries “sovereign right” but on the other hand, with the Ukraine he does not practice what he preaches. Where does he get off thinking he can “defend any threat to Russians ANYWHERE.” his exact quote?! ANYWHERE?!!! I don’t think so POOT=IN! The international world does not work this way! On PRETENSES of “any threat” to “defend ANYWHERE!”- -legally, each country has their SOVEREIGN RIGHTS, like you screamed Syria’s Bashar Assad has! How quickly you forget the LIES you say!

Jul 01, 2014 12:06am EDT  --  Report as abuse
keenan77 wrote:

smokeymtnblues wrote: “From the first 3 posts, appears the Kremlin’s propaganda machine is up and running.”
Not just the first 3 posts… directive 5467nk from the “Politburo”: infiltrate world communication networks and bombard with pro-Russian commentary :)
I’ve seen this in every article about Ukraine on Reuters. This is no coincidence. It’s very interesting to see how cold war absolutes are very much alive in Russian propaganda.

Jul 02, 2014 1:03am EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

@keenan77: Where’d you get that? From the NASA.

Please tell me who are the paid pro-Russian commentators here, and who are the paid pro-USA? Actually, we know from years back (Early Bush Jr.) about the US government plants.

I see some legislators in the Russian government are calling for a Russian Blackwater. Maybe Prince has moved to their side. Must be another Russian trick. Actually, I am getting really sick of the Rah-Rah-America anti-Russian propaganda. I imagine most everybody else in America is also. Its been way oversold!

Give it up, and save us a bunch of time.

Pass it on to the American paymasters, if you have some connection with them. They can buy American bonds, American stocks, American propaganda, but the end is libel to be a disaster for us. The charade will come to an end!

Jul 02, 2014 1:48am EDT  --  Report as abuse
rayofhope wrote:

@xcanada: I couldn’t agree more. I’m proud of being Scottish, but there’s no reason why I should go along with the lies of Western politicians and mainstream media to prove how patriotic I am. There’s also no reason why I should become a rampant, racist, Russophobe. This would be a sign of stupidity, not patriotism.

Jul 02, 2014 2:51am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Ancalimon wrote:

Stupid, stupid Russians. Your economy will soon be in ruins, and rightfully so.

Jul 02, 2014 2:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
111Dave111 wrote:

Next time Putin is preoccupied with something (like Sochi),
Ukraine should take Crimea,
Georgia should take Abkhazia and South Ossetia,
Moldova should take Transdniestria,
the US should mine the harbor in Tartus, Syria, and
Poland should take Kaliningrad.

Jul 02, 2014 4:26pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
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