Ukraine says forces will press forward after taking rebel stronghold

Comments (27)

Donetsk next?

Jul 06, 2014 9:30am EDT  --  Report as abuse
CanRus wrote:

smokeymtnblues wrote:
“Donetsk next?”
Hopefully – seems logical. Though that may be harder and bloodier than Slavyansk. It’s a lot bigger – more places for the terrorists to hide and set up snipers, which means greater risk of civilian casualties. It will require a lot more troops, considering that the Slavyansk gang seem to have all fled to Donetsk along with those who were already there. Kiev will also have to leave some troops guarding Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, just in case Girkin left a few “stragglers” behind to try and retake them, or at least kill a few Ukrainian troops and cause as much havoc as possible – or Putin decides to send in reinforements to do the same.

It would all be much easier for eveybody, and save many lives, if the terrorists would just give up now and surrender. They know they can’t possibly win in the long run – not unless Putin exposes his hand and sends in the Russian army, which seems unlikely. But sadly, it also seems unlikely the terrorists will stop now. Many of them probably want to be martyrs at this point. And I’m sure Girkin’s orders are to cause as much damage as he can before leaving – like Hussein’s army did before pulling out of Kuwait.

Sometimes I wonder if humanity deserves to survive…

Jul 06, 2014 10:03am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Kiljoy616 wrote:

Might makes right even if in the wrong. Will have to wait and see what happens once the real fighting starts.

Jul 06, 2014 10:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Kiljoy616 wrote:

Might makes right even if in the wrong. Will have to wait and see what happens once the real fighting starts.

Jul 06, 2014 10:47am EDT  --  Report as abuse
lub wrote:

Indeed, Donetsk will be bloodier considering its size if the Ukraine army keeps the same strategy of massive shelling of residential areas. It seems they will as ethnic cleansing of Ukraine from the pro-Russian population is applauded in Kiev by both the neo-Nazi mob on the streets and by the neo-Nazi politicians in the goverment.

Jul 06, 2014 12:51pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

lub, your a pathetic little person that is intent on doing nothing but regurgitating the bile being handed out in the Kremlin. There is no ethnic cleansing. It’s simply mercenaries paid by the Russian government who are using innocent human beings as shields. All while being led by a Muscovite Russian agent.

If the really care about the citizens of these cities, the separatists surrender and relocate back to Russia and leave Ukraine in peace.

Jul 06, 2014 1:18pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Lub,

You earned your supper today. Take a break. It is enough of your and your bosses demagoguery.

Jul 06, 2014 1:19pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ Kiljoy616 –

Might makes right even if in the wrong. Will have to wait and see what happens once the real fighting starts.

—————————————

So, what you are proposing is that the Holocaust was actually the right thing to do by the Nazi?

Jul 06, 2014 2:08pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ CanRus –

smokeymtnblues wrote:
“Donetsk next?”
Hopefully – seems logical. Though that may be harder and bloodier than Slavyansk. It’s a lot bigger – more places for the terrorists to hide and set up snipers, which means greater risk of civilian casualties. It will require a lot more troops, considering that the Slavyansk gang seem to have all fled to Donetsk along with those who were already there. Kiev will also have to leave some troops guarding Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, just in case Girkin left a few “stragglers” behind to try and retake them, or at least kill a few Ukrainian troops and cause as much havoc as possible – or Putin decides to send in reinforements to do the same.

It would all be much easier for eveybody, and save many lives, if the terrorists would just give up now and surrender. They know they can’t possibly win in the long run – not unless Putin exposes his hand and sends in the Russian army, which seems unlikely. But sadly, it also seems unlikely the terrorists will stop now. Many of them probably want to be martyrs at this point. And I’m sure Girkin’s orders are to cause as much damage as he can before leaving – like Hussein’s army did before pulling out of Kuwait.

Sometimes I wonder if humanity deserves to survive…

———————————————–

So, you are condoning genocide?

It is incredibly easy to mouth off when you have no skin in the game.

I wonder how you would feel if this goes bad, Russia decides it has had enough of US bullshit and we end up with a hot war over Ukraine.

If that happens, the US may decide to respond militarily, which means the US would need to reinstitute the draft, since our military is worn out and demoralized from constant warfare.

People like you could find themselves being used as cannon fodder by the wealthy class.

Even those in Canada — I assume “Can” means you are Canadian — because Canada’s Harper has been pushing for open warfare in Ukraine.

I agree that people like you do not deserve to survive.

Jul 06, 2014 2:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ smokeymtnblues –

lub, your a pathetic little person that is intent on doing nothing but regurgitating the bile being handed out in the Kremlin. There is no ethnic cleansing. It’s simply mercenaries paid by the Russian government who are using innocent human beings as shields. All while being led by a Muscovite Russian agent.

If the really care about the citizens of these cities, the separatists surrender and relocate back to Russia and leave Ukraine in peace.

————————————————

I suggest you read what I posted above, then read my reply to you.

I prefer to use the word “genocide”, instead of “ethnic cleansing” and yes that is EXACTLY what Ukraine is doing.

I agree that you are a “pathetic little person that is intent on doing nothing but regurgitating the bile being handed out” by the US Military Industrial Empire that is behind all of this.

The truth is that the US is a war mongering nation taht exports genocide for GDP. The much-vaunted “American Exceptionalism” really means we are the most proficient merchants of death the world has ever seen.

The US is able to do this because of the incredible stupidity of the American people, of which you are an excellent example.

Jul 06, 2014 2:25pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Stanley7746 wrote:

Say the Ukrainian Army pushes out the insurgents and secures the border with Russia, how would the Ukrainian government and its army deal with the Russian occupation of The Crimea?
The main industries are located in the east, do the oligarchs need the Russian speaking population to operate the factories? Were the jobs given to workers because of their ethnicity?

Jul 06, 2014 2:39pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pyradius wrote:

EconCassandra,

No one will ever read your meaningless walls of text, but by all means keep posting them if it makes you feel better.

Jul 06, 2014 2:39pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ Pyradius –

Pyradius, my friend!

I thought I had lost you, since you refused to answer my very pointed economic questions yesterday.

The wealthy class will surely appreciate an ill-edcated sycophant such as yourself standing up for them, so they don’t have to answer for their crimes personally.

Or, perhaps not, since you are obviously not “of the manor born”, which means you are simply another one of the vast unwashed herd they despise so much.

Jul 06, 2014 3:06pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
DougAnderson wrote:

Good to see that despite all the sanctions, @EconCassandra is being paid his 50 cents/day.

Jul 06, 2014 3:13pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pyradius wrote:

EconCassandra,

Don’t you fret, I won’t be going anywhere. Additionally, I prefer to respond to relevant topics based in facts, not some half-baked, emotionally unhinged commentary plucked straight from the Kremlin.

Jul 06, 2014 3:34pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
xcanada2 wrote:

To those commenters who try to label others as Russian-agents, i.e. paid by Russia:

Not only is it a tiresome refrain, but if one looked at the range of comments by the supposed Russian-agents, you could probably discern that they are not Russian-paid agents.

I have met enough Americans who are rapidly anti-Russian, to not really suspect that the anti-Russian commenters are not Americans, or at least living here, if that is what they purport.

Interestingly, there is still some divergence of opinions in America. Hurray!

Jul 06, 2014 4:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

“But he (Poroshenko) said the rebels were re-grouping in other big towns and he was far from euphoric. ‘There are further tests ahead.’” That is correct. He has won a battle, but the war continues. I only hope that he finds all or most of the MANPADs, MAN Portable Air Defense missiles that the west Ukrainian 25th Airborne Armored Brigade surrendered in April according to an April 16 Reuters article and the TO&E of the 25th Brigade that can be found in Wikipedia under TO&E Ukraine Army.

Further, EU austerity continues to grow. 50% higher consumer gas bills have arrived while wages are frozen. Ukraine’s currency is down 43.2% in 2014, so imports are higher while wages are frozen. 40% higher utility and business gas prices are coming to raise consumer electricity and store prices while wages are frozen. Tax increases are coming while wages are frozen. The EU free trade deal will let the EU to take Ukraine’s products at bargain prices, but they will leave little for Ukrainians with depreciated currency that they can afford to buy while wages are frozen. Further, Poroshenko allows the EU to wage this economic warfare against the same Ukrainians who overthrew the last legally and democratically elected president in 2014, so Poroshenko may be the next legally and democratically elected president of Ukraine to be overthrown.

Ukraine owes the EU $55 billion and private Ukraine banks owe private EU banks $250 billion, and the devalued currency will cause payment to be the equivalent of $79 billion and $358 billion for Ukraine. The added burden of civil war and likely civil riots later could make repayment impossible and lead to financial crises in EU banks similar to those of the past few years. The EU already had 1Q 2014 GDP growth of -0.3%, and its 2nd biggest trade partner, the US, had -2.9% GDP growth in 1Q 2014. One more quarter of negative growth will put the US and EU into recession.

The US and EU should avoid the economic basket case of Ukraine just as the US and NATO should leave Afghanistan at the end of 2014. Russia, China, and 4 central Asian lands in the SCO agreed to watch Afghanistan after the US and NATO leave, and I oppose Obama’s plan to remain until 2016 because we have SIX SUCKERS willing to take that debacle off our hands after 2014. I prefer to STICK Russia and China with Afghanistan’s military debacles. In the same vein, I prefer to STICK Russia with Ukraine’s economic debacles. The US and NATO (EU) don’t need to continue destroying themselves as they have since 2001.

Jul 06, 2014 5:31pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ pyradius ??? –

EconCassandra,

Don’t you fret, I won’t be going anywhere. Additionally, I prefer to respond to relevant topics based in facts, not some half-baked, emotionally unhinged commentary plucked straight from the Kremlin.

————————————-

You aren’t going to chicken out on me just when we are gettting close to what you (don’t) want to know about the US wealthy class, are you?

Or, are you just going to sit in a corner and sulk like you did yesterday?

Jul 06, 2014 5:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pyradius wrote:

That’s good that you prefer economics, as your political thought process is seriously wanting.

As for copy/pasting multiple articles into the comment section, have fun with that. You clearly lack a basic understanding of the US economy and its interconnected relationship to other countries.

Have fun with your doomsday theories though. In fact, you’re simply going to the same source (Prudent Bear) but in another article. I already responded to your link in regards to Yellen’s comments.

In any event, you failed to grasp the simple point in that despite any economic worries the US might have, there is no other country that would replace it as a Superpower. The financial element was one of many points made, yet you obsessively focus on one point (dragging the same point desperately into other threads as if looking for some sort of vindication), post pages of articles as if it makes you look intelligent and then ask someone to respond.

In the meantime, enjoy posting walls of text. Maybe you should consider setting up a blog that no one will visit but you can copy and paste the work of others there all you want.

Jul 06, 2014 5:45pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ carlmartel –

Can you tell me your source?

I am always glad to add a reliable news source, since there are none left that I know of in the West.

Thanks much!

Jul 06, 2014 5:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

@ pyradius –

That’s good that you prefer economics, as your political thought process is seriously wanting.

As for copy/pasting multiple articles into the comment section, have fun with that. You clearly lack a basic understanding of the US economy and its interconnected relationship to other countries.

Have fun with your doomsday theories though. In fact, you’re simply going to the same source (Prudent Bear) but in another article. I already responded to your link in regards to Yellen’s comments.

In any event, you failed to grasp the simple point in that despite any economic worries the US might have, there is no other country that would replace it as a Superpower.

The financial element was one of many points made, yet you obsessively focus on one point (dragging the same point desperately into other threads as if looking for some sort of vindication), post pages of articles as if it makes you look intelligent and then ask someone to respond.

In the meantime, enjoy posting walls of text. Maybe you should consider setting up a blog that no one will visit but you can copy and paste the work of others there all you want.

——————————————————–

Those “walls of text” are literal proof of the sources I use regularly to back up my opinion with as much independent facts as possible, while yours are simply regurgitated vegepap sources made available to the masses to keep them under control by the wealthy class.

Yellen’s comments, if you bothered to read the articles I sent — frankly, I doubt you are severely lacking in the ability to understand them, which is why you keep returning to the standard wealthy creed — was thoroughly covered and dismissed as worthless, because the activist fed under Greenspan, Bernanke and now Yellen hasn’t a clue as to what they are doing.

The fed is literally the enabler that has allowed the wealthy class to destroy they nation (again). This fed is making EXACTLY the same mistakes made under the Benjamin Strong fed during the 1920s, which culminated in the 1929 market crash and subsequent Great Depression.

The US is a dying Superpower, mainly because of the Military Industrial Complex — Eisenhower was the first to point out that danger when he was leaving office, but has warning has been ignored — that has seized control of this government.

Since 1980 the Jewish-controlled neoconservative political movement and their wealthy sycophants (i.e. mulit-national corporations) have been increasing in power, mainly due to the phenomenal paradigm shift of the global internet, which has given the wealthy class complete real time control of their investments anywhere in the world, thus effectively reducing the risk of investment to zero (e.g. soverign bond fiasco).

The neoconservative movement at some point allied itself with the Military Industrial Complex, and together they determine US foreign policy so that US unreasonable belligerence translates into more profits.

Simply put, the US has remained on a Cold War economic basis since WWII, ostensibly due the existential threat from the USSR. The truth, however, is that the Russian economic system was never able to present a real threat against US capitalist production capabilities, so Russia had to be demonized for the American people to accept the massive military expenditures.

Anyhow, the idea behind the US Military Industrial Complex began to come apart in the 1970s, drifting into real hot wars. For example, Vietnam to begin with, then as the neocons gained more power after 9/11 under Bush II the era of faux-wars began with Iraq, then under Obama it was Afghanistan.

Eventually, ultra-loose monetary policy begun by Greenspan during the 1990s, plus the gross over-spending on the US military budget — which included the destruction of the Social Security Trust Fund to feed the US war machine — the economy crashed in 2008.

Since then it has been kept alive on artificial respiration to the wealthy class who refuse to make capital investment in this country due to the low profitability, but it is about to crash very hard again, probably later this year.

So, your charge of “obsession” with economic collapse is probably true, since in just a few months there won’t be any economy to talk about

I don’t post articles to make myself look intelligent. I am intelligent, which is more than I can say for you and the people like you who refuse to accept another reality for this country just because they have been told everything will be OK by the wealthy class.

ALL of what they say are lies. There isn’t a single element of truth in it at all. I have the education and experience to understand what they are saying, which is why they don’t like my comments.

I should tell you I have a Masters degree in Finance and Economics, and have worked as a Plant Controller in the high tech industry.

My special interest is in the area of political economy, especially how the political and economic events of the 20th century are still connected to the present social, political, economic and geopolitical environment in the world today.

While I have enjoyed some verbal sparring with you, I am growing tired of picking low hanging fruit so to speak.

If you wish to keep attacking me for my opinions with personal insults interspersed, I will choose to ignore your comments from now on.

Jul 06, 2014 7:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
UauS wrote:

@EconCassandra – hey, how much Putin pays per line? :)

Jul 06, 2014 7:42pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
EconCassandra wrote:

If Poroshenko attempts to impose a cease fire, he won’t remain in office much longer afterward.

———————————————–

Following Kiev’s success in the city of Slavyansk, once a separatist stronghold, it will be extremely difficult for President Poroshenko to return to any kind of ceasefire, Mark Sleboda, an international affairs lecturer at Moscow State Uni, told RT.

After the ten-day shaky ceasefire between Kiev and militia in rebel Eastern Ukrainian regions ended on June 30, fighting has intensified bringing the regime its first significant victory on Saturday. The military forced self-defense troops from the cities of Kramatorsk and Slavyansk in what Kiev labeled a “symbolic” victory in the ongoing conflict.

According to Mark Sleboda, no ceasefire ever existed on the ground in the first place – it was only a PR move by President Petro Poroshenko. However now, after the self-defense troops retreat from the cities they controlled for three months, a new ceasefire is very unlikely, particularly since the “fanatics” Poroshenko depends on to retain power are strongly against it.

Jul 06, 2014 7:44pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
pyradius wrote:

EconCassandra,

I see we should add megalomania to your list of ah…traits. You don’t have it in you to ignore a perceived slight (your boasting of your intelligence and education reinforce this). The fact you consider anyone who doesn’t agree with you uneducated, a shill for the wealthy, and stupid but then try and spin around and play the victim of such treatment also lends to an unbalanced mind. Jews and conspiracies (hence your attraction to Putin who sees the world as corrupt) are also scattered throughout your comments. You should seek help sooner than later for your own good, although I won’t lose sleep regardless :)

Jul 06, 2014 10:54pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
AKondra wrote:

If Ukraine has a “right to pacify” the region claiming independence or allegiance to a neighbouring country couldn’t it be an example for rep. of Ireland?

Jul 06, 2014 12:34am EDT  --  Report as abuse
DellStator wrote:

The militants will stay as long as their contract calls for. I imagine there is a huge penalty for quiting early. Be nice if Reuters or someone checked and published how these Russian Nationals who are in charge of the “Revolution” are living in a few years. I’m betting quite well.
I fell really sorry for the pro Ukrainians, hopefully both sides will allow a brief period for those who want to leave the city to leave.
I don’t feel sorry for the admitted majority in Donestk but, they could have looked at Poland (fastest growing economy in Europe) and participated in their million in pro Ukraine rallies. Instead they hoped for more Russian era handouts and let a tiny minority grab power. They are now going to pay for choice.
Well, they are also going to pay for the even more blatent Soviet power play when they starved to death and deported 9 million Ukrainians, and not by chance, Donestk was the province and city that suffered the worst – to be replaced by Russians “immigrants”.

Jul 07, 2014 11:18am EDT  --  Report as abuse
carlmartel wrote:

@EconCassandra

I spent 34 years (1965 to 1999) in the US Army, so I understand MANPADs because I was there when they were introduced. The US version is Stingers. In between missions, I earned a Masters of Business Administration and a Phd in Economics, so I understand how the Ukraine crisis will hurt the US and EU economies. Each nation’s economy pays for its military forces, and it develops and pays for the technological tools of its military. I have led a group of 12 investors and businessmen for 15 years who work in defense, energy, aerospace, computers, agriculture, aquaculture, and water and air purification. My sources include Reuters, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Xinhua, al Jazeera, Russia Today, and many other sources that are interpreted by my experiences in the military and in business. I cannot just list the sources without explaining that my experiences have helped to shape my understanding of the writings that I read.

Jul 07, 2014 11:43am EDT  --  Report as abuse
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