U.S. agents slam gun sting effort on Mexico border

Comments (38)
NobleKin wrote:

“Republicans and Democrats expressed outrage at the ATF program, particularly about two weapons being found at the scene where a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Brian Terry, was killed in a shootout with illegal immigrants.”

So I guess guns do kill people? Otherwise, why the outrage?

Jun 15, 2011 3:01pm EDT  --  Report as abuse

Oh give it a rest NobleKin. It IS people who kill people. THe outrage is legitimate and it is because this lying “President” approved this ridiculous plan. It was bound to fail from the start. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the ensuing disaster wasn’t premeditated as a way to push the anti-gun agenda. www.thefedupamerican.com

Jun 15, 2011 3:55pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
daveca wrote:

Guns dont kill people NobleKin, Liberals like your President do. They comit treason against teh US Constitution and ignore Internation Treaty by supporting illicit trade in weapons to murderous clans in Mexico.

Take youre traitors questions elsewhere.

Obama and his henchmen are in violation of the UN IAC Treaty which forbids illicit traffic in weapons to ‘conflict zones’ and if Mexico ISNT one, tell me where one IS?

Heres the Treaty Oscammer and the BATF are in violation of:

http://unhq-appspub-01.un.org/UNODA/TreatyStatus.nsf/44e6eeabc9436b78852568770078d9c0/cc28b91d9633ebf5852568770079dda4?OpenDocument

Time to arrest them and put them on charges. Conspiracy for starters

Jun 15, 2011 3:58pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JamVee wrote:

Find the guy that thought up this outrageous debacle and fire him/her. Then, fire every individual above that person, that approved this operation.

The whole thing is as stupid and unbelievable as the movie of the same name. Vin Diesel would have done a far better job of it.

Jun 15, 2011 4:01pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Miguel526 wrote:

NobleKin’s ignorance and pre-judgment of these events are rather pronounced. First, Reuters’ overtly leftist slant shows itself plainly by this reporter’s 70% charge, re: where these guns came from. What that 70% number means is that of the few guns found with readable serial numbers, 70% of that small number of the total of captured guns are traceable to US sources.

The real big buyers don’t waste their time sending straw buyers north into the US when they can buy brand new guns, complete with the needed cleaner kits, ammo and accessories from China, Eastern Europe and other sources. Mexican army deserters are also a major source of drug Cartels’ guns, guns dispensed to the Mexican Army by US government operatives

Clearly the criminal organization known as the Obama Administration concocted this “sting” with the idea of purposely creating massive numbers of new homicide victims whose deaths they hoped to be traced back to US sources for their political gain. Obama’s administration Planned and enabled these murder sprees, they just used Mexican murderers to do their killing for them to deceptively, politically attack The Second Amendment, the amendment second only to freedom of speech in importance according to our Founding Fathers.

Obama’s corrupt administration cynically transformed the ATF into their administration’s gunmen who in turn enabled so much murder at criminal hands. Much of that murder surely is yet to occur. But most of the victims are “only Mexicans”, so the Obama’s has turned good, hard-working ATF agents into his racist operatives in a deceptive attempt to discredit The Second Amendment, by disallowing those agents to follow standard US gun laws. This development only encouraged Drug Cartels to “Go North” for more guns.

Clearly, government criminals in DC’s back rooms again have concocted more crimes against any number of “other people”, people who they believe are expendable in their political calculations.

Jun 15, 2011 4:16pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Miguel526 wrote:

NobleKin’s ignorance and pre-judgment of these events are rather pronounced. First, Reuters’ overtly leftist slant shows itself plainly by this reporter’s 70% charge, re: where these guns came from. What that 70% number means is that of the few guns found with readable serial numbers, 70% of that small number of the total of captured guns are traceable to US sources.

The real big buyers don’t waste their time sending straw buyers north into the US when they can buy brand new guns, complete with the needed cleaner kits, ammo and accessories from China, Eastern Europe and other sources. Mexican army deserters are also a major source of drug Cartels’ guns, guns dispensed to the Mexican Army by US government operatives

Clearly the criminal organization known as the Obama Administration concocted this “sting” with the idea of purposely creating massive numbers of new homicide victims whose deaths they hoped to be traced back to US sources for their political gain. Obama’s administration Planned and enabled these murder sprees, they just used Mexican murderers to do their killing for them to deceptively, politically attack The Second Amendment, the amendment second only to freedom of speech in importance according to our Founding Fathers.

Obama’s corrupt administration cynically transformed the ATF into their administration’s gunmen who in turn enabled so much murder at criminal hands. Much of that murder surely is yet to occur. But most of the victims are “only Mexicans”, so the Obama’s has turned good, hard-working ATF agents into his racist operatives in a deceptive attempt to discredit The Second Amendment, by disallowing those agents to follow standard US gun laws. This development only encouraged Drug Cartels to “Go North” for more guns.

Clearly, government criminals in DC’s back rooms again have concocted more crimes against any number of “other people”, people who they believe are expendable in their political calculations.

Jun 15, 2011 4:17pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
auger wrote:

“…follow the original gun purchaser rather than track where the weapons went.”
This would be the way to prosecute the illegal US suppliers. Taking the weapons from the end user is akin to taking a bag of weed out of a kid’s pocket – it does nothing to stem the supply or the demand

Jun 15, 2011 4:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
isnrblog wrote:

People with guns kill people, as do people with knives, baseball bats and cars. Guns do make it easier, so don’t give them to felons and crazy Mexican drug dealers.

Millions of reponsible people, like myself own guns and have never killed anyone.

This was part of an Obama scam to justify tighter gun control.

Jun 15, 2011 4:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JTinCO wrote:

“So I guess guns do kill people? Otherwise, why the outrage?”

The outrage is over BATFE watching criminals rather than arresting them … and the high pricetag to accomplish nothing.

Jun 15, 2011 4:42pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
walter12 wrote:

The BATF has always been suspect and always had rougue members. It was carrying out orders from the Traitor to the US Constitution Holder via Obama. Under this Holder, lapdog to Obama, the BATF is a very dangerous organization.

Jun 15, 2011 5:26pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
VWDriver wrote:

Did we need more reason to close the ATF and send them all home?

Jun 15, 2011 5:27pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
JohnLingberg wrote:

Someone who OK them to just watch needs to go to jail. Why would we not enforce our laws. That’s what is wrong with this country and why no one respects law enforcement officials. This is why we have a problem with immigration. We stood by and watched them come across the border and didn’t do anything about it. It’s to late now. Now it is going to be hard to enforce.

Jun 15, 2011 5:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
dwinstone wrote:

“An ATF supervisor in Phoenix, Peter Forcelli, said some tried to raise concerns with supervisors but were rebuffed.” This why we need to encourage whistler blowers, especially those in the classified arena.

Jun 15, 2011 5:49pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
rjm2238 wrote:

I have a pistol sitting right here, on the table next to me. I showed it your comment and tried to make it promise me that it would not kill anyone today. I did this because you seem to think it has a life of it’s own.
I’m still waiting for my response. I think I’ll be waiting quite a while.
Rich in New Mexico.
PS: I’ll write back when I get a response!!!

Jun 15, 2011 6:00pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SirGareth wrote:

RE: “An ATF supervisor in Phoenix, Peter Forcelli, said some tried to raise concerns with supervisors but were rebuffed.”

See this is an example of another whitewash by the leftist press.

Notice what is missing!

Just the basics – who, why, what & where. WHO are the “supervisors” and WHY are they being protected? WHAT is the purpose
of protecting them and WHERE are the puppet masters where the wires being pulled?

Jun 15, 2011 6:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
OhNoMrBill wrote:

NobleKin…… The NRA does famously state that “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” Think about it…….someone has to pull the trigger……hmmmmm….criminals.

I am a Life member of the NRA and I read about the ATF program — “Operation Fast and Furious” in my NRA magazine a couple of months ago. The NRA is outraged over this. Why you ask…….something Jeremy Pelofsky (Reuters) forgot to report was the ATF was working with gun shops so the straw purchases could be made. The rest of his report for the most part is accurate.

We as Americans should be outraged about ATF’s insidious program and we deserve answers.

I am a responsible gun owner that happens to be a democrat. An FYI Harry Reid received an endorsement from the NRA on the last election cycle and he attended a ribbon cutting for a new gun range in AZ that was one of his projects.

Jun 15, 2011 6:32pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
SirGareth wrote:

RE: “Also, the NRA famously states that “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”

Do you doubt the premise?

Still I don’t see how this can be construed as “The NRA wants us to arm our enemies”

Can you offer enlightenment here?

Jun 15, 2011 6:41pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
sparr wrote:

do i smell a red herring?

criminals used an illegally obtained firearm while committing a crime, which would no have occurred if land owners were allowed to shoot trespassers who also happen to be smuggling drugs. legalize drugs and the the criminal element will need o find a new source of income. when was the last time you read an article about someone being shot while smuggling beer…. or whiskey?

we need a heavily armed citizenry, and to eliminate the police state who, by the way do nothing but watch crime happen, and when they actually do “their job” they end violating the constitution, which is the law of the land. so, as you continue to support welfare recipients with an inferiority complex for which they compensate buy arming them self to the teeth under the color of law and pretend they are in Afghanistan a place they are too afraid to actually go, you will continue to hear what are supposedly “outrageous stories” written by socialists who are too afraid to take care of themselves in any situation what so ever. therefor the want to make you to be as reliant on a government services as they are.

Food stamps, police, social security, OMG what would happen if Americans relied on themselves for a change. we might actually have prosperity……oh yeah and of course we will need to end the Federal reserve bank of interventionist policy :)

Jun 15, 2011 6:46pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
TexasTwister wrote:

Amen SirGareth! As a gun owner, I can live with the current gun laws on the books (though fewer restrictions on law abiding citizens would be welcomed). What gets my goat is that, in this case, my own government has chosen to IGNORE laws on the books to curb this type of behavior, much like this administration has chosen to ignore restrictions placed upon them by the United States Constitution. I say anyone killed or injured by a weapon allowed into Mexico by the BATF has the right to file criminal charges up to an including Obama. It’s only fair.

Jun 15, 2011 7:02pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
jkelley76 wrote:

L have lived in Europe for the past 12 years,Just came back. In Holland specifically (The Netherlands). They have the strictest guns laws in Europe. I, as a musician, met many types touring Europe,The only guns I ever seen were possessed by the shadier types. The most killings that did happen were with knives, poison and even a battery heavy flashlight. If people want to kill someone there are plenty of ways. . 1 or 2 were shot with a gun. Like the old bumper sticker, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. So it is people who kill, if they don’t have a gun, they will use what they have to, to kill. For me I am glad I own a gun. Since coming back home, I have certainly met some crazies. yes they could probably find a way to get a gun, but they are the ones that will use almost anything to kill,maim and injure. Broken bottle, crowbar, baseball bat. So don’t tell me guns kill, people do. I have a gun to protect myself from them.

Jun 15, 2011 7:23pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
rotorhead1871 wrote:

who the hell is running the ATF??? these guys are IDIOTS!!!

Jun 15, 2011 7:34pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Glammer wrote:

I guess Obama found a way to get the cartels to contribute to his campaign.

Jun 15, 2011 8:07pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
NobleKin wrote:

My point: If you use the argument that guns don’t kill people, people kill people, then you cannot be overly dramatic about these particular guns that were identified/tagged/recorded falling into the hands of criminals…if you use the argument that guns don’t kill people…then the guns themselves are little more than a hunk of metal with a serial number. Right? Maybe its the bullets?

The guns used or posessed by the cartel members who were involved in the killing of the US agents underscores the point of where these guns are going, doesn’t it?

Or you can be dismissive because the drug cartel folks would have found guns either way and would have used them either way, right? These just happened to come from an American supply chain, which frightens NRA types and US suppliers, and the poorly conceived sting operation went terribly wrong angers those who don’t realy believe guns don’t kill people, but use it as their defense.

These types of guns are bought and sold everyday…traced or not. Guns are a primary weapon used to kill people in North America, everyday, traced or not.

The fact that a gun is actually far more than a hunk of metal with a serial number, and the intended purpose for handguns and assault rifles is to kill people is the salient point and why America’s love affair with guns will one day meet with destiny.

Jun 15, 2011 9:15pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
TeaPartyVince wrote:

Once again Obama’s agenda takes precedence over the law. Obama wants to create a gun crisis as back door way to attack the 2nd Amendment rights of gun owners in America. He wants guns at the border to be out of control and people get killed to send the message that “guns are bad” and “we must get rid of them”. Never underestimate what this administration is willing to do to further their agenda.

Jun 15, 2011 10:20pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
Paperdragon wrote:

“So I guess guns do kill people? Otherwise, why the outrage?”

My outrage is a program designed to transfer American firearms into criminal hands for the purpose of being able to say X % of weapons came from the US. A percent which has always been overstated by the state run media. Why you ask? more back door gun control measures. Don’t be a tool…

Jun 15, 2011 10:22pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
VanJones wrote:

A Cass Sunstein “nudge” to implement gun sales controls because gun dealers sell to criminals. If the ATF agents hadn’t blown the cover off the operation, gun dealers in many locations would be shut down, and more abusive regulation would be enacted. It will still happen but maybe not from this attempt.

Jun 15, 2011 12:13am EDT  --  Report as abuse
SFAl wrote:

I’m sure there are good people working at ATF. But the ones running the show are the same ones that gave us Waco. And who was Janet Reno’s number one asst? Why none other than Eric Holder. Makes sense, now, doesn’t it.

Jun 16, 2011 1:02am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Skuzulupugus wrote:

I don’t think the cartels got the message that it is illegal to purchase and transport firearms across the border. We need stiffer gun control laws. While we are at it, we should stiffen the drug laws. At some point they got to give in.

Jun 16, 2011 1:17am EDT  --  Report as abuse
billcrawford wrote:

“What we find is that people at the local level overwhelmingly objected to this program but were assured that it was approved at the highest levels,” said House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa.”

It seems very apparent that the highest levels are on the drug dealers side and bought and paid for, could there be any other reason? probably not as no one can be lacking in that much common sense.

Jun 16, 2011 1:51am EDT  --  Report as abuse
FloridaFits wrote:

Show me, or anyone else for that matter, where the tired old canard attached to “people don’t kill people, guns do” derives from something pronounced or distributed via the NRA.

Can’t. No why? It’s a lie, that’s why. So is 70% of the 30,000 guns found in Mexico attributed to USA ownership. Drug cartels use…and I’ll type slowly so ALL OF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THIS…drug cartels purchase fully automatic weapon systems, which are not to be had by the average American citizen.

70% of the firearms found in Mexico were at some point in time manufactured in America or by its allies, then sold to Mexico, and various governments in South America. The armies and police then sell these weapons to drug cartels, because there is no way that puny little gun shops can get their hands on such armaments.

Commenting upon something you know virtually nothing about is the same mindset that promoted a community organizer to the highest civil service job in the country. That and believing in unicorns, pots of gold at the end of the rainbow, and the Mainstream American Media telling the real story. Not that they’re lying, they’re simply lazy and print whatever they believe will sell soap detergent.

Jun 16, 2011 2:01am EDT  --  Report as abuse
rightmoderate wrote:

NobleKin, you need only to look at the last 600 years to realize that those who seek peace AND cannot defend themselves are swallowed-up by those of a philosophy that is the antithesis of theirs’. I could ( and I’m sure you could,too),see an endless array of this if I looked-back.

I lived in Cook and McHenry counties until I saw what the political machine there had in-store for their ‘sheep’, and I hauled-ass out of there. This is all before your rioting, random shootings and the removal of our Second Amendment rights as law-biding Americans.

If you seek peace, prepare for war.

Jun 16, 2011 2:12am EDT  --  Report as abuse
roccotool wrote:

“See where the guns were going to go”? Where did you think the guns were gonna go, Venus? And what did you accomplish if you found out they went to a drug cartel? Were you going to ask them to kindly give them back?

Investigations need to be made on this, and they need to go all the way to the top; to the person authorizing all this.

Justice needs to be done.

Jun 16, 2011 2:59am EDT  --  Report as abuse
Quek wrote:

the deal is a narrative was made that guns from the US were the cause of the crimes. It turned out to be false and the guns were being purchased else where. To make the narrative true, the ATF was instructed to sell the guns to the gangs. Now they can say the guns from the US are the cause. It was a liberals way to make a false story true.

Jun 16, 2011 4:20am EDT  --  Report as abuse
nieldevi wrote:

I hope they put tracking devices in all of the guns they let through. Lead the Federales right to the source.
Now for all you politically brain-washed blog junkies. Go ask the desperados whether they are liberals or Democrats or Teabaggers. Self-righteousness is also a sin.

Jun 16, 2011 6:03am EDT  --  Report as abuse

nobkin,
Our country is based on the right to bear arms. If you don’t like it, leave.

Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth. – George Washington
When firearms go, all go. We need them every hour. – George Washington
To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. – George Madison
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed–unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. – James Madison
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. – Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. – Thomas Jefferson
Those that hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. – Patrick Henry
The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. – Alexander Hamilton

I’m sure nobkin’s reply will be “nuh uh”

Jun 16, 2011 9:56am EDT  --  Report as abuse
nvonr wrote:

US ATF agents were told track the weapons as they are purchased by “straw buyers” than follow the weapons up until they are going to be resold to Mexican buyers/the Mexican drug cartels. 70% of the weapons end up in the hands of Mexican criminals but the Obama administration says do not follow the guns into Mexico. Red flags should be raised every where on this disgrace.
Why is this investigation being blocked by the White House?. As always just follow the money.

Jun 16, 2011 10:41am EDT  --  Report as abuse
MagAodh wrote:

Actual Taxpayer – great quotes but I still fail to see how the following can be interpreted to allow anyone to own a gun, just because they want a gun?

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Unless of course the NRA et al have paid off the judges and lawyers to deliberately broaden the interpretation. Which is strange considering so many Judges and lawyers tend to be liberals. Think about it, I would be less concerned with gun ownership if everyone who owned a gun had to participate at least once a month in a militia training program. Instead of the Wild West mentality the currently prevails.

Jun 16, 2011 11:10am EDT  --  Report as abuse

magaodh,
its because you have no understanding of history.
When the second amendment was written (by the men who I’ve quoted) The militia consisted of all able bodied men. They were in no way a part of the army. The took up arms when there was a need.
Your kind can play with the interpretation of the wording but the intent of the writers is clear for anyone who is interested in facts. The rest want to use “well regulated militia” to cancel out “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
it doesn’;t say “the right of militia members to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” it says “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Jun 16, 2011 12:06pm EDT  --  Report as abuse
This discussion is now closed. We welcome comments on our articles for a limited period after their publication.