House approves debt deal a day before deadline

Ha! Ha! Ha! What did I say?! The debacle makes good Hollywood movie. If the slightest pain is inflicted upon the world, the US financial institutions will be the first to experience it and maybe another TARP followed by another TARP and so on! What is evident is not the impact of US default upon the world. That is already part and parcel of the deal and everyone knows it when the USD first became an international currency and US professes to be an open economy. But what will probably happen after this is the US interest rate appears to have to go up, the USD probably declining but not at a rate that is faster than interest rate rise, base prices will escalate reasonably fast, the world’s overall economy is unlikely to crash maybe a bit bumpy and slow that’s all and ultimately the world economy will be reshaped whereby no single country dominates.

What? So soon? Geez guys you had at least another 24 hours to drag this whole game out! Or did someone forget what day it was?

The Democrats have betrayed the American people in not standing firm on the Tax Increases for the Rich. This is a dark day for America, even if the debt ceiling is raised, because it was a solid victory in the Rich’s Class Warfare against the Poor and the Middle Class.

We owe like 14 TRILLION. We’re announcing savings of $1 Trillion over TEN YEARS. Doesn’t take a math professor to tell you that this compromise is completely without merit and does nothing for the future of this country. Invest in gold and bullets, we’re just around the corner from becoming the next Greece.

Now that we all see how easily an overzealous minority can force its will on the entire nation, the floodgates will be open for more of the same in the future.

I really don’t understand what Obama’s people are thinking. I am constantly getting phone calls from his reelection campaign asking for money or for me to volunteer. This isn’t 2008. The fervor is gone. We’ve seen the true man, and we don’t like what we see. Obama has been shown to be a cowardly windbag. Perhaps it would be best if a Republican WAS elected. Then we could see how well he would do at creating jobs. But, if that does happen, one thing we won’t see is a debt ceiling fight. The Tea Party wouldn’t dare do that to one of their own. Perhaps the Dems should get ruthless and try the same trick.

The funny thing is that the deal is in essence kicking the can down the road: the $1.5T that’s due to come from a bi-partisan committee by Dec… hmmm, where did I hear that one before? Was it last year? Naw, couldn’t have been. Well, glad that all this rhetoric ended with bluffs from both sides but I can guarantee that the TPers aren’t satisfied and progressives are going to simper at Obama. American politics = farce

there is No Deal until the votes are counted.

Standard and Poor’s won’t dowgrade the US. They failed the world in 2008 and they will fail again. 4 Tr in cuts needed.. we are no where close to that coupled with all the political wrangling. US does not deserve the AAA rating. They downgraded Greece a few notches without bating an eyelid but watch as they back paddle over the coming weeks from their own criteria and not downgrade the States.

So instead of a $14 Trillion deficit over the next 10 years, the US deficit will increase $11.5 Trillion through 2022.

No one has the stomach or the backbone for what really needs to be done. The process has been nothing more than a Roman farce, and it will end badly for the American people, who, by the way, have elected these fools.

@inertia: yup but from what i read, the GRAND TOTAL US debt is like 55-60 trillion dollars. It will never be paid back

Thanks for selling us down the river once more Mr. President. Please don’t have your campaign keep calling me for a contribution. I have to save more now for my health care and retirement. Hope we couldn’t believe in.

After countless times of debt ceiling increase, has anything changed? Wish they had save some of the overtime to hire a Hollywood director – The results won’t change but it’ll less boring, at least.

=GSH10 Wish it was a real deficit reduction as you calculate, but it isnt. The $4Trillion represents imaginary cuts to deficits which are theoretical, or fictional as best. They are based against revenues the world economists call “laughable”. Over ten years? What a joke.

The reason the politicians needed the debt limit raised is to borrow money to pay the interest on money already borrowed, and not to fund improvements to our society. Right now 30+ cents of every dollar you pay in taxes goes to debt interest payments. This cannot continue. By not putting the $4trillion in cuts against current budgets, the economic crisis is still not solved. The debt therefore remains on track to double by 2020. The USA debt and deficit are now the largest of any country at any time in human history, and it got there in the last three years. If you think its bad now with mass unemployment, the housing market collapse, bank default, and decaying infrastructure you cannot imagine the economic Armageddon which is coming.

Obama was elected president because he promised health care reform, which he delivered. It’s the Republicans who were elected mid-term because they promised to create jobs, which they have not delivered. They got their wealth protected by no increase in taxes and keeping the Bush tax cuts, which is really all they are interested in anyway, other than derailing Obama if they can. Remember at election time that the gradual economic decline and ultimate crisis was caused by corporate greed, long before we ever heard of Obama. Big corporations moved jobs overseas because didn’t want to pay workers higher wages to keep up with inflation, they didn’t want to pay for employee health care as it spiraled out of control, they didn’t want to pay taxes, and they didn’t want to be regulated. So the top execs kept wages and benefits down and skimmed profits off the top to create and keep their exorbitant salaries, bonuses and golden parachute retirements. Get back on the track, people. Republicans are masters at creating distractions.

Obama was elected president because he promised health care reform, which he delivered. It’s the Republicans who were elected mid-term because they promised to create jobs, which they have not delivered. They got their wealth protected by no increase in taxes and keeping the Bush tax cuts, which is really all they are interested in anyway, other than derailing Obama if they can. Remember at election time that the gradual economic decline and ultimate crisis was caused by corporate greed, long before we ever heard of Obama. Big corporations moved jobs overseas because didn’t want to pay workers higher wages to keep up with inflation, they didn’t want to pay for employee health care as it spiraled out of control, they didn’t want to pay taxes, and they didn’t want to be regulated. So the top execs kept wages and benefits down and skimmed profits off the top to create and keep their exorbitant salaries, bonuses and golden parachute retirements. Get back on the track, people. Republicans are masters at creating distractions.

$3 Trillion printed out of thin air and pumped into our economy. Hello hyper-inflation.

This article gives us nothing in terms of what the deal entails. All we know is that instead of thoughtful economic reform, we get grandstanding and rushed judgment. The debt ceiling was raised at least 7 times during the Bush administration, when most of this debt was created, now the Republicans use cheap tactics to hold the economy hostage to force kneejerk reactions, instead of careful consideration on tax codes and budget concerns. I hope the voters are paying attention to the facts instead of allowing TV talking heads to dictate their reactions.

McBob, the law-abiding rich legally don’t owe a damn thing to the poor and middle classes. Success is not a crime and exterminating the incentive to become successful by increasing the burden on those who achieve this is not the way toward success as a nation. I agree that increased tax rates for those able to pay them helps compensate for those who do not giving willingly of what they have, but increasing that burden is not the answer to the problems our government faces.

Our government (unlike the misinformation McConnell is distributing and Reuters reports) has defaulted numerous times in the past – see http://www.finance-ol.com/2011/07/around-the-five-u-s-debt-default-in-history/ . As our government system was designed by its framers to be inefficient, it’s ever-expanding role should no doubt lead to numerous issues, especially when it attempts to compete with the free market. It simply doesn’t make economic sense for the government to assume roles that the free market is capable of handling without a moral impetus, and eliminating the extraneous spending that is better handled in a competitive market is the best way to correct our government’s path. Granted there are many areas where government oversight is beneficial and even necessary to prevent corruption, but our politicians need to focus on perfecting these rather than adding to the already dizzying array of programs to steal jobs and value from where it was meant to be found – in the hands of those who want and deserve it the most.

I predict that everything will be OK. and i also predict that a bunch of people will go online and make predictions on a news-site comments board…

That bill is a complete victory for the Teabaggers. None of the Republican Sacred Cows were even touched, so how dare they call it a “compromise”. It was a complete conciliation by the Democrats.

If there aren’t serious tax increases for the Rich in the next few months, then you may as well give up on calling America a democracy anymore, and just call it what it is; a plutocracy.

Americans have lost control of their country to radical extremists and nutjobs, like the Tea Party. They need to demand that the radical minorities that are calling the shots for the Republicans be marginalized and ignored. They don’t speak for the majority of Americans by any stretch of the imagination.

Since this mess is over, let others have a say about money. I am unemployed for a decade and there is a blockade about me making money because I am forced to take military career or draft in the country I live in which clearly humiliates my skills and qualifications. I am tired of begging for money everyday and if I will fail to make a significant gain from my works within a couple of months I’ll get ECHR to litigate a certain government that brazenly sued me for “threatening their leader” whose undercover services already knew I was born to a parent among their citizens.

This doesn’t have a BBA attached, can’t pass the House under any circumstances, and so it is still Default Ahoy.

I suppose when this is over they’ll pose as heroes, having worked over the weekend to avert this crisis. What would we do without our beloved leaders?

Standard & Poors is being tough on the U.S.? They were pretty tough on the U.S. when they convinced investors that toxic subprime-laced crap was worthy of a AAA rating. Why are we kowtowing to them when we should be prosecuting them?

mcbob08,
let me enlighten you.
First, the people whom you and your fellow class warfare proponent obama call “rich” are all of those hard working couples who make a combined total of $250k a year. Now that my seem like a big number from your perspective but it really isn’t.
Second, how can your imaginary “plutocracy” be true when your half of the population pays no income tax? you get all of the benefits those of us who pay do AND you get to vote for more handouts while the top half pays for everything. The less intelligent have bought into obama’s rhetoric about private jet owners and inherited money when none of it is actually true. Those more successful than you were not handed it, they EARNED it. You didn’t.
thirdly, the tea party did not win. The imaginary spending cuts that don’t start until 2013 will do nothing to solve our debt problem. Until we have real SPENDING reform, our country will continue to bleed jobs and money.

Tea Party Nation founder Judson Phillips called it “a complete victory for liberals” and said the spending cuts were “a joke.”

Man I was depressed. At least I got to read this little ray of sunshine. It can’t be all bad when the worst people in our society are saying things like this.

Hope everyone remembers who caused this debacle once 2012 rolls around – vote the party of ‘NO’ out!

ActualTaxpayer..here’s the irony and your dilemma. The Bush Tax Cuts expire at the end of 2012. Obama has vowed to veto any legislation extending them again. Even if he loses the 2012 election he will be in office until Jan 20, 2013. That means that new legislation would have to written and passed after the taxes have already expired to have any chance of getting them back. Or Congress will have to muster up a 2/3rd’s majority to override the veto. Given the debt problems that will be central to 2012 elections, that hardly seems likely. What jack wagons like you fail to understand is that those Tax Breaks did not help the economy 1 iota, did not produce any jobs and increased our debt. We had to borrow the money to pay for them. It was irresponsible to give them (unfunded) in the first place.

Now having said that, I believe that we ALL pay too much in taxes in the first place. It’s not just the Democrats that are responsible for out of control spending. Three weeks ago the House Republicans wrote and passed a bill giving $17B more for defense spending. Included in that bill was equipment that the Pentagon did not ask for. It passed with broad partisan support (Obama has vowed to Veto it). In a year where we are winding down the two wars why would it be necessary to INCREASE Defense spending? The U.S. will spend $650B this year on Defense. The country that spends the 2nd highest amount on Defense is China. They spend $95B a year. In fact the U.S. spends more on Defense than China, Europe and the Soviet Union combined. This is one of the reasons that we have an out of control debt and our taxes are more than they should be. Congress, not just the Democrats, has a major spending problem. Who are we defending ourselves from that would require $650B per years? Could we get the same protection form $300B a year, which would still be more than 3 times what China spends?

If I’ll fail to have contact with my biological family this Friday and if I won’t have a draft related official response recognized by government here, I’ll litigate each member of the cabinet and bureaucrats of concern as well as the police chief of this town before ECHR.

robscheerger,
its a sad tipping point for the country when people like you think that people who want fiscal responsibility from our government are characterized as “the worst people in our society”
do you pay income tax at all?

xyz2055,
here’s the irony of your thought process. When the Bush tax cuts expire, it will expire for us ALL, exactly like they were implemented. President Bush lowered ALL tax payer’s taxes. Your class warfare hero only wants to raise taxes on a tiny minority. Lets see him veto the tax cuts as a whole if they’re brought up for renewal.
If you were so unhappy with the Bush tax cuts, you should have just sent the IRS your extra 5% (if you pay income taxes)

Goes to show how deep rooted the system works against common good and favors the few. God help.

For all who are just so elated with the deal, remember, this will be installments(with a weak dollar), which can be delayed or not even guaranteed. You wont see much of this deal even began to drag into action until 2013. Where do you think this country will be financially by then? How do you think this is going to be paid back? This deal is moving us right into guaranteed inflation, possibly hyperinflation. This is nothing more than debt piled onto old debt that still hasn’t been paid. We’re just applying for new credit cards with huge balances and haven’t paid off the old one’s with huge balances. There is no iron-clad, long term good that is coming out of this This is all theatre.

Brilliant politics Mr. President! I never thought I would ever hear Americans screaming for higher taxes. The media may not get it but your place among political geniuses is assured. The tea party and their political flunkies have been baited into making republicans look like the scary clowns in a horror flick. The election is coming and they will be going away because they didn’t just anger voters, they SCARED them. Frightened and furious voters vote to recall republicans in Wisconsin on the 9th, this budget circus assures their doom and will further fuel the rage for Governor Scott Walker’s recall. Democrats will stall republican bills till after elections and then pass new bills to undo the heavy handed, anti women, anti union, anti poor bills they are pushing through as fast as they can. Republicans won their great budget battle, but it cost them the war because they pandered to the rich corporations and threw the people who voted for them under the bus.

Sooooo,……nothing. Zilch. Nada. As expected they will raise the debt ceiling with the same old promise of making cuts ‘later’. The Washington ‘later’. Yuu know, like never. Kick the can.

Republicans telling their side no tax increase, the democrats telling their side there will be tax increases, and Obama himself gets off not having to deal with it till after the next election. In other words never probably never again, but you know he’ll probaly get a Nobel Peace prize for economics out of the deal.

Both sides get to pretend like they rolled up their sleeves and did some work. The reality is all they did was work at looking busy. They did nothing. The problems have not come close to being addressed which means the next time the problem will be larger yet. Again.

Simplify the tax code by eliminating most deductions and institute a fixed,flat,same tax rate for all incomes.No more nonsense, envy taxes,that just ends up causing a few to pay all the freight and cause those who pay little to keep voting for more wasteful govt spending.Envy(progressive) income taxes just divide the country between those who work for a living vs those who vote for a living.We all need to come together to get this country back on track.

I dare Obama and the libs to end the Bush tax cuts for the middle class.They are larger than the ones for the rich.Go for it,Obama.

Tbags, go away. If you want to make the country and the world a better place, then participate in some long term planning along with the other elected representatives. If you want to disrupt the country and the world for you own sense of power, then call yourselves for what you are: Anarchists.

Today’s Devotional: Blessed are the children, for they shall inherit the National Debt. Boy the rest of the world is right – we really are a bunch of selfish pigs!

$2T over 10 years? $200B/ year in inflated dollars down stream? Chickenfeed! Please vote “No” T-partyers; you’re the last hope of our children and grandchildren.

xyz2055: “It’s not just the Democrats that are responsible for out of control spending.” Haha…ya think? How astute: Afghanstan War; Iraq War; No Child Left Behind; Medicare Part D; Dept of Homeland Security; tax cuts primarily for the rich during a time of war.

Obama didn’t have a chance. The Republicans were already planning to label him an out-of-control spender before he was ever sworn in, because they knew he’d own the huge Bush/Republican-generated deficit and they never hesitate to deceive the American public to gain political advantage.

Obama’s biggest initiated expense was the stimulus package. Stimulus spending is not a new idea originated by Obama. It’s Keynesian economics, the economic theory the US had followed during its better economic times up until Reagan’s presidency. I’ve always found it disturbing that Republicans are all too willing to ignore the advice of scientists and other experts in their fields and instead plug in whatever works for them politically, which usually means pandering to their wealthy corporate benefactors. Ronald Reagan, economic expert? We’re now suffering under the enactment of Reagan’s economic expertise and it’s unlikely that we’ll ever fully recover.

Taxes are a fact of life in an educated, civilized society and those who have the most money pay the most in taxes. That was the American way until Reagan pulled the plug on the US economy. Greed will be the downfall of America.

Thank god we have a President who can compromise to get things done; regardless of how bad the deal is – moving forward to save America’s credit rating and stabilizing markets is good and I commend the President (just as I commended him when he struck a deal to avoid the government shutdown).

To all the people who are upset about the showboating and spectacle of this debt-ceiling debate I would suggest venting your anger in the only way possible within politics and use your vote to get rid of the party of ‘NO’.

ginch..try not to be obtuse..I was merely trying to dispel the “Tax and Spend” myth.

when the bottom likes it and thinks its wise to compromise, you know its bad for the country.

I am with varela, I do not necessarily like it but unlike the tea-party based modern GOP I can handle compromise for the sake of the country.

ActualTaxpayer as ignorant as ever. Did you happen to read my post right after that were I said we pay too much in taxes. I know it’s difficult for you to grasp data (like the Bush era debate where I took you too the woodshed) and have limited comprehension skills. It shows in virtually everything you post here. Time to shed the “Easy Rider rifle rack” and the “Kill A Commie for Christ” bummer sticker from your 1970 pick-up truck.

Epic fail in Cave City. This is NOT a compromise, it’s a cave-in.

=ginchili. To quote =xyz2055, try not to be obtuse. You just arent smart enough, and far too fanatical. You have so little grasp of reality that you write Republicans “ignore the advice of scientists”. Scientists? “Scientists” deal with “science” and here’s the drum roll for you… “Economists” deal with the “economy”! As soon as you get that sorted out people may start reading your posts again without laughing.

= If you read ONE THING today you must read this article on Reuters – “Phoney as a $3 bill”. It really sums up the “debt deal” perfectly.

http://blogs.reuters.com/gregg-easterbrook/2011/08/01/the-phony-as-a-3-bill-debt-deal/

For those of you blaming the TEA party remember, they are only a small minority of 1/2 of 1/3/ of the government. the democrats still control the Senate and the White House. You want to blame some one you might want to start there. This “deal” saves Obama’s bacon. That is all he cared about. If they had said this only goes to October 2012, Obama would not have even considered it.

This “deal” stinks according to many on the extremes of the left and right and they will refuse to support it. It might pass the Senate, but I predict it will run into a brick wall in the House.

That will put us into “prioritization of payments” mode from Wednesday forward, scrambling to avoid a default on Treasuries.

This deal will be argued and debated the rest of this week, maybe even into next week, so Congress will be fiddling while Rome burns.

Then – too late to reverse the extensive damage – D.C. will pass the darn thing and the Prez will sign it into law. But by 8/10 it won’t matter much because we’ll be dealing with a full-blown financial collapse – much worse than Sep/Oct 2008.

Terrible. Would have been better for the Republicans to do nothing and let the chips fall where they may.
Where is any rating agency mentioned in the U.S. Constitution? They were not elected to make or influence any legislative or executive decisions.
The Legislative and Executive have failed us again. Do the Republicans actually think Pelosi, Reid and Obama will stop spending us into debt? “Fundamental change” remember?

@NukerDoggie – lets hope the tea-baggers in the house actually do something to help America instead of just being obstructionist.

@elusivesolution – I would just like to note that the link you provided is a link to a blog within reuters; which as with all blogs is just the ideas of a single individual as opposed to a news story which is suppose to present the facts.

varela:

The Tea Party is doing something to help the United States. They are promoting the U.S. Constitution in an effort to save the country from a “fundamental change” to Marxism.

I think there’s a good chance the bill will fail spectacularly, and here’s why:

It pushes budgetary tricks.

Remember how the old Bush wars were off the official budget counts? The new rules are very similar, in that if Congress and the President both agree, wars / war on terror spending can be counted outside of the discretionary spending caps. That’s just downright annoying for Democrats that fought to stop the hiding of the true costs of two wars.

Then there’s the social security disability spending. They too are allowed to be classified separate from discretionary spending caps, albeit they do have dollar limits, even if increased gradually. That’s going to make Tea Party Republicans angrier than hell.

I think the bill may achieve bipartisan votes AGAINST it, in the House. Finally, bipartisanship, eh??!

I really don’t think anyone realizes the debt load of our country. I will put this in terms of gold. Current gold rate is ~$1620.00 USD/troy oz, which is roughly $3.24 million/ton. Our debt= 4.5 million tons of gold. 4 and half million tons of gold, and we just added another 650,000 tons. This makes “Kelly’s Heroes” look light.

@0blivian – How are the tea-baggers promoting the U.S. Constitution? Also what leads you to believe that the United States of America is in a “fundamental change” to marxism? could you please explain what marxism is and what makes you believe that the USA is becoming part of that ideology?

@bikerjoe – I would redo your numbers a troy oz is more then a regular oz

“The troy ounce (ozt) is a unit of imperial measure. In the present day it is most commonly used to gauge the weight and therefore the price of precious metals. One troy ounce is equivalent to 31.1034768 grams. There are 32.1507466 troy oz in 1 kg. One troy ounce is equivalent to 1.09714 avoirdupois ounces.” -Wikipedia

NukerDoggie:

“By 8/10 Full blown financial collapse”? We’ll all be killed!

What happened in Sept/Oct 2008? Nothing except maybe the stupidity of bailing out the irresponsible.

The influence of the Tea Party will eventually bring stability again.
Strong congressmen like Michele Bachman who have the experience, integrity and guts not to back down to the stupidity of the big spenders.

Any deal that does not address new income sources is a losing proposition. It will only decrease jobs and further decrease income.

Obama and the Democrats gave it all away; blackmail by any other name is still Tea Party blackmail. I’m hoping the bill fails to pass and forces the President to invoke Article 14 of our Constitution, unilaterally raising the debt limit and then, showing some balls, takes on these extremists head-to-head.

elusivesolution..what’s wrong with this picture. The debt deal (“supposedly”) saves $2.1T over 10 years, while we continue to be upside down by over a $1T every year of that 10 years. You’re going to see me post A LOT about the Defense spending. It is the single most out of control, assinine, bloated, fraught with waste and contractor corruption expenditure that we have. It’s like everything else our government does when it comes to legislation. They pass the “Cadillac” version. Personally, I’m beginning to think that defaulting would have been a better solution. It would have forced Congress to finally make some responsible choices (then again, maybe not). At the same time I know that every economist on the planet would disagree with me and sees that as the least attractive solution. But how else do we stop these jack wagons?

=xyz2055. Absolutely, 100% in agreement here. The military spends 25% of the global total on military, with Russia #2 at 8% and China at 5%. That isn’t defense, its empire building. For the $45 billion cost of ONE stealth bomber we can build a lot of schools, repair a lot of roads, and pay for better healthcare. Which is the better choice for our society?

Arguably defaulting would have been the better solution because it would force the USA to pay the TRUE COST of the irresponsible deficit financing which has been going on for years. Like every Ponzi scheme, it will collapse. Many economists will tell you that would have been better to default now than default later when we have no options. Default truly is the only way to stop these “jack wagons” from causing economic collapse, which they will. At the current rate, the debt, which is already the highest in human history, will double by 2020. Sometime between now and then, default will happen.

=varela. The facts are the facts. Is anything Gregg presents untrue or illogical? If anything is, please say so, otherwise accept that what has presented is a valid perspective.

Fascinates me that the medial all continue to report as fact that without a deal the US will on Wednesday default on its debt. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Come Wednesday, without a deal, the U.S. would pay its creditors and begin shutting down parts of the government. This is not new information and was further confirmed by the Treasury department a few days ago when they started laying out their plans. And, take note of how the President described the issue, he always said we’d default on our “obligations”, he never said we’d default on our debt. In fact, he made a point of saying that we would not default. I think this is important, because it was key for the President to play this as a debt default issue and not meerly a government spending issue. The crisis was not debt crisis, it was a spending crisis. The U.S. no longer had the funds, without additional borrowing, to continue on its current spending trajectory. The President was succesful in getting a debt increase with minor reductions in spending that do nothing to really “bend the curve” on spending. I take it as a moral victory, at leat he didn’t get his clean bill and we’re talking about defecit reductions and not more spending.

=xyz2055. Just one more quick point to follow your comment on the military. One trillion invested in manufacturing will create hundrteds of thousands of jobs producing goods which other working people will consume, and drive the economy. One trillion spent on the military is a “black hole” because it produces nothing, gives no return on investment, and is continuously consuming at higher rates more as the cost of technology increases.

@xyz2055 and @elusivesolution – I agree about defense spending being out of hand – I’m with you guys and president Obama and would like to see more investment in education and infrastructure….

But I disagree with your idea on defaulting to force the President to invoke the 14th – I agree that President Obama invoking the 14th would show a ‘stand my ground’ attitude but the effects on the American people would be devastating; I would much rather see a ‘true’ debt ceiling increase but with the tea-baggers in the house that looks like an impossibility; the next best solution is to compromise with the tea-baggers in the interest of the American people and then hope that Americans are smart enough to vote those ‘obstructionist’ out the next time they get a chance.

we need a third party…and not the Freakin” Tea Party. A party of Independents that aren’t beholden to Wall Street (Republicans) and who aren’t beholden to the labor unions (Democrats). We need a party that just sees problems and is willing to make the tough decisions to find the best solution. We need another party that represents ALL americans, not just special interest groups. This pendulum swinging back and forth from the left to right based on election cycles has proven to be counter productive.

The Republicans are attempting to thwart the economic recovery for their own political gain. This is treason.

varela..I said I almost think it would have been better only because nothing really got done in this deal. All they really did was just raise the debt ceiling. While I appreciate the consequences of not increasing the debt ceiling, this bill simply kicks the problems on down the road. How do we fix this problem. Like elusivesolution says, the debt may be double in just 9 more years. The problem just keeps getting more difficult to fix. I agree with elusivesolution, default is inevitable with solutions like this. So why not now than later and simply make them deal with it?

@elusivesolution – you’re implying that spending a trillion in manufacturing instead of the military would create hundreds of thousands of jobs. It might, but wouldn’t you lose hundreds of thousands of jobs from military production. You can certainly question the need for or purpose of military spending, but your math doesn’t work.

@xyz2055 – ALL Americans do NOT agree on where the country should head, that’s why the two parties exist. You are not going to be able to create a party for ALL americans, because we won’t all join. When you dig into people’s core values left v right, they aren’t beholden to anyone on either side (i’m talking about large groups of voters). They are beholden to a philisophical view of government and society and their roles. Conservative believe in limited government, in econcomic and political freedom and self reliance; an equal opportunity for all. Liberals/progressives, beleive in larger government, in intervention by government, political freedom, but economic limitations and importanly they beleive in the governments role to provide for more equal outcomes (social justice). I along with millions, passionate on both sides, strongly believe one is better than the other. That doesn’t make us beholden to wall street or unions, but we do associate with those with similar views and try to work together to advance our views. That is the wonderful thing about this country, we can all do it passionately, without tanks rolling in the streets.

elusivesolution..defense is a “black hole”..classic example…we sent planes loaded with cash to Iraq that they are now having a hard time accounting for where it went. The absurdity of putting billions of dollars in cash on a plane with virtually no accountability is mind boggling.

Chris Hedges’ “death of the liberal class” should have more to say about this debt deal. I will listen to any argument that Obama, tea party members, republicans and others are not conspiring to screw the liberals.

An angry, red-faced Representative Peter DeFazio, a liberal from Oregon, told reporters, “What’s the package about, it’s all about cutting, cutting, cutting.” It is, and that is because as a nation we have been spending, spending, spending.

xyz2055:

Yes, there is terrible waste in government spending and some no doubt in Defense spending which should be corrected but Defense spending overall should not be cut. That would be falling into the same trap as in the years before World War 1, World War 2, Korea, Vietnam and the 9/11 disaster.

When a country cuts it’s defense it sends a message to it’s enemies that it is a prime time to attack. But then of course that couldn’t happen again, now could it?

North Korea, Iran, have both threatened us with nuclear weapons. China, Russia, do you really think they are our friends. China building a nuclear sub fleet, Russia? who knows. Their people might like us but there are still many hard bitten old time Communists who don’t. It may not even come as nuke attacks but attacks on communication satelites or our electical grid, who knows. China and Russia are buying up petroleum reserve while we are worried about disturbing a fish or lizard.

These threatening countrys must know that we have the ability to strike hard and immediately in all ways.

We must remain strong militarily or thing could change very quickly and even in an instant.

It’s Bushes fault, the tea baggers want a balanced budget, profit is bad, we started all the wars, the rich don’t pay taxes, etc etc! It’s called tranference & excuses and it’s a sign of failed leadership! Well done is much better than well said!

The T-baggers think they ‘shined’ through this all? They whined like little pigs, they threw tantrums like little children, and they think that makes them powerful?! Ha! Where’s their mommy?

The Communist (Chinese and Russian) said we’re living beyond our means and our government (40% of GDP) is too large! When the communist say our debt and big government is a problem, you know the tea baggers where right and the rest were wrong!

Good bye social security and medicare, wait and see when all the baby boomers retire, what a mess this country is going to see. Lets see, no pensions, no health benefits, no savings, a 401K eaten by the sharks in wall street. A whole sector of retired without anything but the hand out.

What an great idea, sending all of the jobs overseas. The super rich got what they wanted by buying their way through congress. We are now going to see the great American way drift out to sea. What a legacy for all the boys who were killed in foreign lands for this great country.

I have to agree with my old fathers comments, “We need these 60′s radicals to move on so a new generation of people educated with a different mindset can change this county”. I think he is right.

@xyz2055 – I know we agree that this whole debt-ceiling spectacle is to push the view of the tea-baggers that “government is ‘too big’ and needs to be cut before we can even talk about taxes” and I think we agree that the current crop of republican/tea-baggers are willing to do what ever it takes to make President Obama a ‘one-term’ president irregardless of what is best for America. But I still disagree that we need to look at the situation by saying “default is inevitable with solutions like this. So why not now than later and simply make them deal with it?” Saying “we are going to default eventually so why now do it now” is irresponsible and un-American; we need to fix the problem “whatever it takes” and not look at problems but find solutions. I think my biggest problem with the republicans/tea-baggers is their focus on problems without offering solutions “Government is too big Waaaaa! Immigrants are taking all the jobs Waaaaa! I don’t get my investment dollars tax-free Waaaa! Obama wants to fix health care Waaaa! Obama wants to fix roads and bridges Waaaa! Obama supports NATO in Libya Waaaa! etc.”
Yes, Republicans/tea-baggers we all know that the world is not perfect and America has it’s share of problems…but instead of focusing on making President Obama a ‘one-term’ president why not focus on how to actually fix things like the debt-ceiling and making American government work more efficiently?

And everyone’s Ox got gored! This ugly mess will be raising its head again before mid next year. November, 2012 cannot come soon enough.

varela: Here we go again.

Please read the 14th Ammendment to the Constitution which you say the President should invoke.

Go to section 5. OK?

The cowards in congress just killed the country.

Winners and losers?

At this point, anyone that has listened can understand Boehner’s Battle. It may have been a personal loss for the Majority Leader, but it worked out in the end, for now.

As for Obama liberals, it’s really time to understand their are no options, and I’m not talking about approving a debt ceiling. If revenue cannot meet the demands of aging boomers, technology leap-frogging ahead and leaving jobs behind, and a housing market that’s leading up to mass demolition-2012, then, well, we have to start cutting things out.

This is truly the beginning of the end.

Still a totally unneccary piece of political drama. Americans have got to be insenced over this rediculous postulating by the demigogic Congress. Then again, Americans have the shortest attentions span of any organism on earth and by next year’s election they will have forgotten all about it and will voted on 30 second sound bites. Never underestimate the stupidity of American voters.
Our bought and paid for politicians will be back to work like nothing has happened. It’s disgusting. I have been a consistent voter for years, but I am seriously thinking of forgoing that honor since my vote, or anger or anything else doesn’t make a difference inthis oligarchy/plutocracy

@xyz2055: defaulting would have been the better solution. All the talk about the world crashing…we’ve heard that before in 2008. That was the “rich” talking, afraid of losing their wealth. Sure the markets would have tanked for a moment, but the global free market would have taken the necessary steps to correct itself and life would have went on, just not having the US in the driver seat any longer. It would have gave the US a chance to get the house straight and get the financial house in some kind of order. But instead we’ve just compiled massive debt on top of already massive debt. Game….for all intent and purposes….is over.

Why wouldn’t they approve it, they got what they yelled, screamed, threatened and lied for.

Hold on to your wallets, we are in for a bumpy ride.

=JMC1234. Hi, just a quick comparison of investment in military production vs. civilian production.

For our example, let’s take a tank vs. a car. First of all, the tank was paid for with taxpayer money, not profits or investment capital so that money had to be taken by the government from other programs such as schools and road building. The tank has one use – kill people. During its service life it consumes fuel, maintenance, upgrades and alot of other high cost expense all taken from taxpayers. It produces no income or profit.

On the other hand a car is produced from investment capital and requires no taxpayer money (disregarding GM and Chrysler bankruptcy). Workers earn money and can buy the car, which the company can then reinvest in manufacturing. The car can be used as a taxi, generating both tax revenue and an income for the owner. It can carry people to restaurants, malls and stores to keep the economy growing. A car is sold and re-sold until it not longer works, then an auto wrecker sells parts off it, which further drives the economy. A tank has one owner, and when it no longer works, it is thrown in the scrap heap, a 100% write-off which never generated a cent of value in its service life.

So on a broader scale, with hundreds of thousands of products, a trillion dollars invested in manufacturing would have a phenomenal positive impact on the economy. A trillion invested in military manufacturing is a “black hole” with no real economic benefit. Its a choice we have as a society – tanks…. or schools, health, public safety, good roads, and a other societal benefits. Arguably the politicians still havent “got the message”.

cheeze:

Your father is correct, the 60′s radicals took in many of the younger generation at that time and also older radicals who were just waiting for such an opportunity. Some of their children and grandchildren were smart enough not to be taken in but some were not and are actually in positions of authority now.

I believe with the correct people in office that Social Security and Medicare will be OK. Some of the rhetoric is just scare tactics.

By the way, Social Security was originally not intended to be a retirement plan but just a safety net for those who didn’t do too well
for one reason or another nor was it to be a medical plan.

Jobs are being sent overseas because taxes and labor costs here in
some regions of the country are not competative. Many companies are relocating to the southern states rather than going overseas.

Have faith in the American people. If let alone by government dictators they will thrive again and so will our country.

Old guy.

Most Americans regard this whole debt ceiling debacle as yet another (glaring) example of Obama’s failed leadership. With his poll numbers sagging badly, there is a growing consensus across the American political spectrum that his is a failed Presidency in almost every major regard.
Many serious observers of the U.S. political scene from both sides of the aisle are now in agreement that Obama is undoubtedly the most incompetent President in modern times and that his election was basically a masterful bit of marketing cloaking his inexperience and lack of serious qualification for the world’s most powerful position.
Really a huge problem for the U.S.

I think this whole debt ceiling debate has been about removing the Bush tax-cuts? right?