Obama tax ideas face long odds ahead of election

Weren’t we sold a bag of false promises last time around by Obama? Talk about short memories.

I’m pretty certain everyhting he mentioned faces “long odds”. Just like his 2008 message of change faced “long odds”, even though some people have still yet to figure that out.

Obama is a great motivational speaker, but a poor President – none of his preachings come to fruition; he simply has the wrong ideals and hasn’t the moxy to get much accomplished.

This article is right!

Everyone with a brain and a decent education knows that Washington is completely disconnected from the American People. They have worked very hard to be certain it is that way and stays that way.

Instead of these silly, nothing can change “elections” we should spend the money on a national party every 4th of July with free music (required to retain copyright privileges for the coming 12 months) and free barbeque and free beer for the masses in every city in the country. No limits, no restrictions, no licenses, no arrests for crimes with no physical assault. Then the people would actually get something worthwhile for their taxes.

jaham – “none of his preachings come to fruition”

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-kept/

162 and counting…

Politifact is run by a liberal newspaper in Florida. They are just as trustworthy as Fox News or any other blatantly partisan media source.

Here go the smoke and mirrors again.

It is depressing that nobody – even seemingly educated commentators, understand that capital gains tax is essentially double taxation. Add to insult, it’s not just a Federal tax, but also a State tax because most states also levy a tax on capital gains and dividends. In my state of New Jersey I pay the 15% Federal tax + 10% New Jersey tax on dividends.

The depressing part is that I already paid Federal, State, FICA, SUI, etc. taxes on the money that is now earning me the dividends. When I take out dividends or cash in on some of the gains, I get taxed again!

As an example, take a middle class retiree who earned $50,000 per year and paid Federal, State and other taxes on it. Every year he took some of that AFTER TAX money and invested it in a stock fund. The fund grew nicely and now the retiree starts cashing in on his investment’s gain – and pays ANOTHER 15% Federal + ANOTHER 10% state tax on the gain. Why would anyone insist that he pays another 30% Federal tax on it?

This is the situation Romney is in. Why doesn’t anyone highlight this double taxation? Actually a large part of Gingrich’ income also come from dividends.

So the crux of the matter is: If I take my hard-earned, after-tax money and found a company, thereby risking it all to employ people, why should I pay much more tax on the money that I’m earning than the average wage earner?

can you say “Lame Duck”
I knew you could.

Oppieknoppie – You just very eloquently and concisely explained why capital gains taxes are in absolutely no way whatsoever “double taxation”. You paid taxes on the PRINCIPAL you invested when you earned it. You pay capital gains taxes on the DIVIDENDS you earn from the investment. This is not the same money. To use your example, say the investor in question earns $10,000 in dividends on the $50,000 you say he invested and already paid federal, state and other taxes on. He would then pay capital gains taxes on the $10,000 dividend and not a nickel more on the $50,000 he invested.

Ah, all those pictures of Boehner sitting there, glowering over Obama make me just want to run up there and tickle him.

Blame Congress for getting in the way of many of these things. And that’s that.

What American voters think, and for the most part, they don’t, doesn’t matter anyway. America is not a democracy or even a country, but a corporate fascist state which exists for an elite class to extract money and blood from individuals who happen to be living in what passes for the USA.

It was a good campaign talk with a great many Utopian ideas and a lot of empty boilerplate nationalistic bravado. Given the dire economic circumstances, the latter seemed a bit like whistling past the graveyard.

The speech was subliminally reinforced by a series of emotive images on the right side of the screen (e.g. Obama = Lincoln, etc.)

One important undercurrent of the speech can be paraphrased thus: Republicans and Democrats should do national politics the way they do war. Which is a good point, since the only thing the two parties do with any unanimity and devotion is war.

However, that is only so because recent wars (and the upcoming one with Iran) earn politicians of both parties the stupendous patronage of the money-bags behind a notorious foreign lobby.

More war is about all we can expect no matter which party wins the general election.

Obama may face long odds with his agenda, but he needs to get his ideas out there and he needs to fight for them. And the Democrats and the American people need to do the same. And we need to continue doing so until enough Republicans decide the do the right thing or we get rid of them and replace them with people who will stand up for the struggling Middle Class.

In the meantime, we need to demand an end to our government for hire system, ban lobbying and implement publicly financed elections.

People don’t realize this yet, but Obama is the best we can hope to get with our system the way it is. Anyone more “for the people” will not make it to the Oval Office. Obama is somewhat of a fluke, but the power elite have managed to keep him in check. But it will be harder to do during a 2nd term.

If the tax on dividends is increased then there will be less investments made and the economy will slow down even more.
Nothing like tax to deter people from investing in the economy.
Obama is taking us closer and closer to socialism

conserfolife: Obama is not taking us anywhere near socialism. Try explaining that specifically. You’ll find that you won’t be able to because what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

Why would raising capital gains taxes deter people from investing? Please explain how that’s supposed to work. Because capital gains tax rates were between 25% to 39.9% from 1934 – 1981. Once we came out of the Depression our economy roared and yet capital gains were taxed at a rate of 25% or greater. So their goes your theory. People don’t stop investing or building or hiring when taxes go up, unless they go up too much, and then they still don’t stop. We’re a long way from that, nor is anyone suggesting they go up very much. Obama is suggesting that millionaires pay taxes at a rate of 30%. Historically, that’s still extremely low. You have to be reasonable. Healthy nations require taxation. The right has to quit teaching people the lie that the less taxes the better. That’s a recipe for disaster.

Quote from Greenspan2: “What American voters think, and for the most part, they don’t, doesn’t matter anyway. America is not a democracy or even a country, but a corporate fascist state which exists for an elite class to extract money and blood from individuals who happen to be living in what passes for the USA.”

Agree with Greenspan2’s well-put comment, as with DwDunphy’s’ comment about tickling Boehner.
Boehner is trying so hard to not smile or laugh at any of Obama’s comments, even though he probably does agree with at least some of them. As the article points out, the power behind the Republican party would not agree even with themselves if they thought it might make the Democrats look to be right, as they are.

Yes, Boehner would certainly be in big trouble with “the boys in the back room” if he smiled or laughed with Obama, or agreed with anything that Obama or Biden had to say, no matter how true it was.

doggydaddy:
Obama Care is a form of socialism, tax increases on any social class is a form of socialism, and any program or policy designed to redirect wealth from taxes to promote equality among all people is definitely socialism. Communism’s whole idea is making everyone equal and that everyone puts their money into one big communal pot; Communism is merely an extreme form of socialism. Now, when I say Obama is taking us closer to socialism it is obviously all relative. Overall the US is very much a mixed economy leaning more towards free market economically, but that doesn’t mean his policies and ideas aren’t moving us farther to the left.
My point about the tax rates is that in this economic climate people are less likely to take any sort of financial risk, especially if the return rate on their capital is significantly lowered. This is obviously not a problem for people like Mitt Romney, but for the average American it’s not likely that they’d take that kind of risk. Tell me this, after 1981 would you say the economy got even better for the next couple decades with a lowered tax rate or worse?
How can you say people won’t stop building or hiring it taxes were to go up? Sure, for the big companies and rich people that is true, but think about the small businesses which employ America. If you lessen the corporate tax rate businesses will have more money to employ workers, increase infrastructure, higher wages, and more money for investors. If you disagree with that then we have a fundamental difference in beliefs.
I don’t agree with the tax loopholes millionaires are able to use in order to pay a lower tax rate, but the reality is the revenue generated by a higher tax on millionaires will account for almost nothing relative to the current GDP and national debt.
Raising taxes doesn’t hurt the big corporations in America. They complain but that doesn’t mean they can’t afford it. I don’t agree with that thought process but it is very popular among the Democrats. So I like to put it this way. Think about all the people who run small businesses. They need every little bit of capital they can get their hands on in order to survive in the market, higher taxes kills those businesses or impedes their development and growth. Just ask anyone who actually owns a business, they can tell you better than I can.

Oppieknoppie wrote:
It is depressing that nobody – even seemingly educated commentators, understand that capital gains tax is essentially double taxation

__

No one ‘understand’ it becasue it is a LIE! A great big fat lie.

What is taxed is the GAIN – not the amount originally put in.

Pretty clear you never passed Tax law in law school.

conseflife

“but think about the small businesses which employ America. If you lessen the corporate tax rate businesses will have more money to employ workers, increase infrastructure, higher wages, and more money for investors.”

(1) Workers, infrastructure etc are ALL 100% deductible. They pay no tax on the money they spent on those things.

And small business- real small business not a company with 500+ workers – are lucky to gross $1,000,000 let alone have profits in excess of the amount for the top rate

(2) ANd you do know the difference between Sub-chpt S corps and regular corps don’t you?

Profits pass through an S to the owenrs of the corp. Their tax rate is the PERSONAL rate – not the corporate.

If a business is ‘small’, by definition it is not going to be a regualr corporation but an S corp. No sense spending the time and money on a regular corporation form when an S minimizes the tax consequences and the record keeping.

Sensibility – Just because the facts don’t back your ideology does not make them “blatantly partisan”.